1. Fiat boundaries
    Which international boundaries are 100% fiat, meaning 100% straight? On the map I see: Morocco-Western Sahara Algeria-Mauretania Western Sahara-Algeria
    May 01, 2001 @ 05:45 - Jesper & Nicolette Nielsen ("Jesper & Nicolette Nielsen" <jesniel@...>)
  2. Re: [BoundaryPoint] Fiat boundaries
    in practical reality probably none of them since surveys have generally wandered a bit not to mention the earth curvature like even the famous colorado &
    May 01, 2001 @ 09:22 - michael donner (michael donner <m@...>)
  3. Re: [BoundaryPoint] Fiat boundaries
    jesper this question is more fascinating & playful than i first realized & your list might be increased by the following tho i am not sure about several of
    May 02, 2001 @ 06:03 - michael donner (michael donner <m@...>)
  4. Re: [BoundaryPoint] Fiat boundaries
    ahh now i think i see what you really meant a single sector straight line boundary with no deliberate deflections a much more special category than i
    May 02, 2001 @ 13:48 - michael donner (michael donner <m@...>)
  5. Re: [BoundaryPoint] Fiat boundaries
    & jesper of these 5 or 3 singular fiat boundaries we have found your chad nigeria line is probably the truest & purest in the world by virtue of being totally
    May 02, 2001 @ 16:43 - michael donner (michael donner <m@...>)
  6. Re: Fiat boundaries
    ... single ... Not deflected, but Lake Chad being a very salty one with fluctuating amounts of water (+salt) in it, there are possibly (also fluctuating)
    May 02, 2001 @ 17:41 - Peter Smaardijk ("Peter Smaardijk" <smaardijk@...>)
  7. Re: [BoundaryPoint] Fiat boundaries
    The Nigeria-Chad boundary is a funny fish! And so is Lake Chad - on some maps the boundary is entirely wet, on some it is half wet, on some it cut islands, and
    May 02, 2001 @ 19:27 - Jesper & Nicolette Nielsen ("Jesper & Nicolette Nielsen" <jesniel@...>)
  8. Re: [BoundaryPoint] Fiat boundaries
    slight retrenchment from previous exuberance since both of the tripoints defining the wet singular fiat chad nigeria boundary are legally indefinite & have
    May 02, 2001 @ 19:50 - michael donner (michael donner <m@...>)
  9. Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Fiat boundaries
    peter mentioned ... actually it is now a completely dry line as recent photos clearly show in http://www.afrol.com/Categories/Environment/env062_lake_chad.htm
    May 02, 2001 @ 22:38 - michael donner (michael donner <m@...>)
  10. Re: [BoundaryPoint] Fiat boundaries
    sounds interesting fill us in further if or when you can m The Nigeria-Chad boundary is a funny fish! And so is Lake Chad - on some maps the boundary
    May 02, 2001 @ 22:42 - michael donner (michael donner <m@...>)
  11. Re: [BoundaryPoint] Fiat boundaries
    By the way, fiat boundaries don t have to be straight lines. Fiat boundaries are any boundaries that are located where they are because some authority declared
    May 02, 2001 @ 22:45 - David Mark (David Mark <dmark@...>)
  12. Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Fiat boundaries
    Interesting about Iraq-Jordan. My newest atlas show a straight line, but expedia.com shows a zig zag. Is the caus border between Point Roberts and Lake Wood
    May 03, 2001 @ 05:35 - Jesper & Nicolette Nielsen ("Jesper & Nicolette Nielsen" <jesniel@...>)
  13. Re: Fiat boundaries
    I wonder, since those boundaries were never defined, whether the states that were adjacent to the lake when it was still a lake and not a puddle, now want
    May 03, 2001 @ 08:07 - Peter Smaardijk ("Peter Smaardijk" <smaardijk@...>)
  14. Re: Fiat boundaries
    It just occured to me: if the countries could decide that each of it has to be bordering on the lake as long as it s there, then a real quadripoint will emerge
    May 03, 2001 @ 08:12 - Peter Smaardijk ("Peter Smaardijk" <smaardijk@...>)
  15. Re: [BoundaryPoint] Fiat boundaries
    of course you are right as usual david & it makes me want to exchange the term singular fiat boundaries for which we have now most probably affirmed in
    May 03, 2001 @ 16:22 - michael donner (michael donner <m@...>)
  16. caus straight or irregular
    actually brian has filed the ultimate dissertation on this topic but it would take a search or a chase goose to get us back to it i think one basic point of
    May 03, 2001 @ 17:13 - michael donner (michael donner <m@...>)
  17. Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Fiat boundaries
    nice thinking tho now would you apply your powers to bwnazmzw too where we do stand a snowballs chance in chad m
    May 03, 2001 @ 17:17 - michael donner (michael donner <m@...>)
  18. Re: [BoundaryPoint] caus straight or irregular
    The CA-US border (Lake of the Woods to Point Robers) consists of a number of straight segments between boundary markers, it is sometimes as far as 1/4 mile
    May 03, 2001 @ 17:37 - David Mark (David Mark <dmark@...>)
  19. Re: [BoundaryPoint] caus straight or irregular
    That rises a few questions: 1) Is the CA-US border (Lake of the Woods to Point Roberts) the 49th parallel and the markers wrong? Do the local know the actual
    May 03, 2001 @ 20:09 - Jesper & Nicolette Nielsen ("Jesper & Nicolette Nielsen" <jesniel@...>)
  20. Re: caus straight or irregular
    You mean that along loxodromes the magnetic north is in exactly the same direction, or do you mean true north? I thought it was true north, actually, but I m
    May 03, 2001 @ 20:33 - Peter Smaardijk ("Peter Smaardijk" <smaardijk@...>)
  21. Re: [BoundaryPoint] caus straight or irregular
    http://www.geocan.nrcan.gc.ca/ibc/coordinates/SECT-M-83.txt offers a fully illuminated & enjoyable ride west to east from which i was able to extrapolate the
    May 04, 2001 @ 00:19 - michael donner (michael donner <m@...>)
  22. new caus questions
    jesper ... the markers mark the true border & most locals probably know that the markers are a bit off the 49th parallel because the original surveys many
    May 04, 2001 @ 00:22 - michael donner (michael donner <m@...>)
  23. loxodromes
    ... me too but me too ... would that be the oblate ellipsoid thingie might affect great circle measurements on the order of 1 percent or maybe 1 tenth of a
    May 04, 2001 @ 00:38 - michael donner (michael donner <m@...>)
  24. Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re: caus straight or irregular
    ... True north. A loxodrome by definition maintains the same angle relative to true north. ... Earth is approximately an oblate spheroid, i.e. flattened
    May 04, 2001 @ 00:56 - David Mark (David Mark <dmark@...>)
  25. Re: [BoundaryPoint] caus straight or irregular
    ... No, the markers are on the 49th, but because the 49th is not a great circle, it is not a straight line itself, but a curve concave north. So to overcome
    May 04, 2001 @ 08:15 - Brendan Whyte ("Brendan Whyte" <brwhyte@...>)
  26. Re: [BoundaryPoint] caus straight or irregular
    according to the ibc data there are only 9 monuments anywhere in this series lying anywhere within 5 feet of the true 49th parallel 420 492 493 494 581 878 879
    May 04, 2001 @ 15:04 - michael donner (michael donner <m@...>)
  27. Re: [BoundaryPoint] caus straight or irregular
    It s interesting that demarcation actually changes the border. I guess the same will happen to eg Egypt-Libya in due time. What does the caus treaty say in any
    May 04, 2001 @ 19:18 - Jesper & Nicolette Nielsen ("Jesper & Nicolette Nielsen" <jesniel@...>)
  28. Re: [BoundaryPoint] Fiat boundaries
    ... Define straight . Especially on a sphere. The only stright line on a sphere occurs on a great circle. A line following any parallel apart fomr the equator
    May 02, 2001 @ 00:50 - Brendan Whyte ("Brendan Whyte" <brwhyte@...>)
  29. Re: [BoundaryPoint] caus straight or irregular
    jesper It s interesting that demarcation actually changes the border. yes indeed now that you mention it a cogent & original observation I guess the
    May 04, 2001 @ 21:47 - michael donner (michael donner <m@...>)
  30. Re: Fiat boundaries
    I suspect that in a lot of cases, the principle of the boundary lay- out is specified in a treaty (like the 49 deg. line ), but the actual demarcation is left
    May 04, 2001 @ 21:56 - Peter Smaardijk ("Peter Smaardijk" <smaardijk@...>)
  31. Re: caus straight or irregular
    Re Peter s point about approximations to the shape of the earth. The sphere is a first approximation. After that come various second approximations, all oblate
    May 04, 2001 @ 22:52 - granthutchison@cs.com (granthutchison@...)
  32. Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Fiat boundaries
    couldnt follow the dutch so well but it strikes me as very curious that areas subject to the accumulation of sand dunes would be specially marked by such low
    May 05, 2001 @ 02:54 - michael donner (michael donner <m@...>)
  33. Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re: caus straight or irregular
    exquisitely done maestro can you also say which of the 3 choices gps survey technology adopts & whether this points to a most consensual usage or is it
    May 05, 2001 @ 13:51 - michael donner (michael donner <m@...>)
  34. Re: Fiat boundaries
    I too think that this is strange. But some stones have metal rods planted on them, 1.20 m long, with a small sign on top, on which probably used to be a
    May 05, 2001 @ 13:57 - Peter Smaardijk ("Peter Smaardijk" <smaardijk@...>)
  35. Re: caus straight or irregular
    ... The basis for GPS is the WGS84 ellipsoid. But my (rather elderly) GPS receiver provides conversion to many local mapping systems, based on many
    May 05, 2001 @ 14:21 - granthutchison@cs.com (granthutchison@...)
  36. how many model earths & how much do they vary
    ok major thanx again grant so i am still not sure i have understood everything yet but it appears there may actually be 4 distinct levels of accuracy
    May 05, 2001 @ 20:03 - michael donner (michael donner <m@...>)
  37. Re: how many model earths & how much do they vary
    ... Actually only three - spheroid and ellipsoid are interchangeable terms, the first being a little antique. In the U.K. we had until recently the
    May 05, 2001 @ 21:14 - granthutchison@cs.com (granthutchison@...)
  38. Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re: how many model earths & how much do they vary
    beauty grant i am very pleased with both of us curiously my old unreliable dictionary that i like to keep next to my old unreliable atlas was misleading me by
    May 06, 2001 @ 00:01 - michael donner (michael donner <m@...>)
  39. Re: how many model earths & how much do they vary
    ... my old ... particular ... one of ... sections ... True enough. It s just that all the reference ellipsoids used here are oblate ellipsoids of rotation
    May 06, 2001 @ 00:46 - granthutchison@cs.com (granthutchison@...)
  40. Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re: how many model earths & how much do they vary
    would have said so sooner but was distracted this was a perfect conclusion to a perfect extended lesson for me & i hope everyone got so much out of it all as i
    May 10, 2001 @ 05:53 - michael donner (michael donner <m@...>)