jesper
>
>It's interesting that demarcation actually changes the border.
yes indeed
now that you mention it
a cogent & original observation
>I guess the same will happen to eg Egypt-Libya in due time.
>
>What does the caus treaty say in any case?
the 1818 treaty between great britain & the usa was the first to extend the
boundary westward from the lake of the woods
& it simply specified the 49th parallel of latitude
all the way to the stony aka rocky mountains
it was not until the treaty of 1846 that the 49th parallel boundary was
extended from the rocky mountains to the pacific coast
but neither treaty was actually a caus treaty since both were between great
britain & the usa
strangely tho
the ibc says that the part west of the rockies was first surveyed between
1856 & 1861
while the older more easterly sector wasnt marked until 1872 thru 1874
this means
the older demarcation on the newer sector was originally british american
but the younger demarcation on the older sector was canadian american
from the start
m
>Jesper
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "michael donner" <m@...>
>To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 2:19 AM
>Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] caus straight or irregular
>
>
>> <http://www.geocan.nrcan.gc.ca/ibc/coordinates/SECT-M-83.txt>
>>http://www.geocan.nrcan.gc.ca/ibc/coordinates/SECT-M-83.txt
>> offers a fully illuminated & enjoyable ride west to east
>> from which i was able to extrapolate the following data
>> showing that there are only 2 concentrated areas of disturbance
>> where all the significant lurches occur
>> namely from monument 43 to 65 & from 478 to 480
>> but the single greatest lurch occurs between monuments 49 & 50
>> in the cascades
>> to see which ask topozone for bearpaw mountain
>> but i can tell you it will still be imperceptible
>> where the latlong ratio or deviation from due east reaches about 1 second
>> of yaw per minute of run
>> equating to several degrees of compass arc
>>
>>
>> monument sequence tendency gradient extremity of lat
>>
>> 0>2b 35>37 northward gradual 49d 00m 08s 8t nmost
>> 35>37 38>43 southward gradual 08 7
>> 43 50 south steep 48 59 50 3 smost
>> 50 52 minuscule none ditto
>> 52 62 north steep 59 8
>> 62 63 minuscule none ditto
>> 63 65 north steep 49 00 03 3
>> 65 347 mixed s&n gradual 48 59 48 0 new s
>> 347 478 mixed s&n gradual
>> 478 480 north steep
>> 480 912>tpbb mixed s&n gradual
>>
>> the northernmost point appears also to be among the westernmost
>> specifically somewhere still unknown in western point roberts
>> 891 feet 4 inches too far north of the true 49th parallel
>>
>> & the southernmost is at monument 347 between sweetgrass & whitlash montana
>> 1215 feet 5 & a half inches too far south
>>
>> more coming in next message
>>
>> m
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >The CA-US border (Lake of the Woods to Point Robers) consists of a number
>> >of "straight" segments between boundary markers, it is sometimes as far as
>> >1/4 mile north or south of the 49th parallel.
>> >
>> >I put "straight" in quotes because of the issue of what constitutes a
>> >straight line on the earth's surface. The usual definition of the
>> >equivalent of a straight line is a great circle. But great circles other
>> >than meridians and the equator have costantly changing bearings (compass
>> >directions). Lines of constant compass bearing, known as loxodromes, are
>> >not shortest paths unless they run north-south or are along the equator.
>> >
>> >David
>> >
>> >On Thu, 3 May 2001, michael donner wrote:
>> >
>> >> actually brian has filed the ultimate dissertation on this topic
>> >> but it would take a search or a chase goose to get us back to it
>> >>
>> >> i think one basic point of his tho was that the lines between each
>>pair of
>> >> monuments are unique great circles
>> >> & thus actually none of them ever aligns perfectly with any other
>> >>
>> >> & this is apart from the slight local irregularities that necessarily
>>occur
>> >> everywhere a monument is placed
>> >>
>> >> whether there are more egregious zigzags or offsets than these i dont
>>know
>> >>
>> >> m
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >Interesting about Iraq-Jordan.
>> >> >
>> >> >My newest atlas show a straight line, but expedia.com shows a zig zag.
>> >> >
>> >> >Is the caus border between Point Roberts and Lake Wood 100% straight, or
>> >> >are the local irregularities?
>> >> >
>> >> >Jesper
>> >> >----- Original Message -----
>> >> >From: "michael donner" <m@...>
>> >> >To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
>> >> >Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 12:38 AM
>> >> >Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Fiat boundaries
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> peter mentioned
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >--- In BoundaryPoint@y..., michael donner <m@d...> wrote:
>> >> >> >> & jesper
>> >> >> >> of these 5 or 3 singular fiat boundaries we have found
>> >> >> >> your chad nigeria line is probably the truest & purest in the world
>> >> >> >> by virtue of being totally wet as well as probably unmarked
>> >> >> >> & therefore almost certainly absolutely undeflected by so much as a
>> >> >> >single
>> >> >> >> subatomic particle
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> m
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Not deflected, but Lake Chad being a very salty one with fluctuating
>> >> >> >amounts of water (+salt) in it, there are possibly (also fluctuating)
>> >> >> >amounts of land that are cut by the boundary.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> actually it is now a completely dry line
>> >> >> as recent photos clearly show in
>> >> >>
>><<<http://www.afrol.com/Categories/Environment/env062_lake_chad.htm>
>>http://www.afrol.com/Categories/Environment/env062_lake_chad.htm>
>> >><http://www.afrol.com/Categories/Environment/env062_lake_chad.htm>
>>http://www.afrol.com/Categories/Environment/env062_lake_chad.htm>
>> >> >><<http://www.afrol.com/Categories/Environment/env062_lake_chad.htm>
>>http://www.afrol.com/Categories/Environment/env062_lake_chad.htm>
>> >><http://www.afrol.com/Categories/Environment/env062_lake_chad.htm>
>>http://www.afrol.com/Categories/Environment/env062_lake_chad.htm
>> >> >> if you can mentally supply where the border is
>> >> >>
>> >> >> still being legal but indefinite it remains the most pristine of
>> >>all the
>> >> >> singular fiats
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> btw i also just noticed that the iraq jordan boundary
>> >> >> 1 of the 2 other best claimants of singular fiathood
>> >> >> has recently lapsed into a rather messy de facto zigzag
>> >> >> vaguely suggestive of the egypt sudan administrative line
>> >> >>
>> >> >> so it may well have bitten the dust for any playful purposes
>> >> >> & we could now be looking at a world class set with only 2 members
>> >> >> both dry
>> >> >> one marked
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> still cresting on my brendan waves
>> >> >> >> & so wishing for the perfect moment point of happy landing
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Yes I know what you mean. The viscosity of these waves is huge, I
>> >> >> >think. What substance is this? No salt water...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> i think it must be aurora australis concentrate
>> >> >>
>> >> >> responds shimmeringly to your every thought
>> >> >>
>> >> >> still dancing across the empyrian on it here too
>> >> >>
>> >> >> excelsior
>> >> >> m
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
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