On Thursday 08 May 2003 11:12 am, you wrote:
I agree with you Mike and I too am interested in the academic (and aesthetic)
fractal boundary question. I was merely responding to Kevin's statement that
"we can and do measure natural borders". My point is that the length of a
boundary would seem to have no political or legal significance and so I doubt
there have been any official measurements of the length, as opposed to
position, of the Ellis Island boundary. Of course, as previously
demonstrated, neither can be measured if the boundary is the high water mark
(i.e. fractal), but both can be measured if the boundary is polygonal (i.e.
monuments connected by straight line segments).
BJB

> --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, Brian J. Butler
>
> <bjbutler@b...> wrote:
> > On Thursday 08 May 2003 02:07 am, you wrote:
> > I seriously doubt that anyone has attempted to measure the
>
> length of the
>
> > Ellis Island boundary. Why would they? Estimating and
>
> marking its position
>
> > has value but determining its length is purely academic.
>
> right brian but that is precisely my try
> & how about academic & esthetic value too
>
> for at stake here is nothing less than the possibly definitive
> answer to craigs possible question
> which may have been
> most simply & elegantly
> whats the shortest state line in the usa
>
>
> we know west kytn is about 3 miles long & totally geodetic
>
> so the question & procedure are simply
> can we measure this new geodetic njny here too
> so as to compare their lengths
> & finally decide the possible question
>
>
> we have just learned of a finite number of gis points on new njny
> 60 or 180 of them or something
>
> so basically it seems
> if we can just get hold of these geodata & hotwire them to a great
> circle arc calculator
> we already have a very doable deal
>
> yet we would really only have to do a very few calculations before
> getting a clear sense of which of these 2 shortest state line
> candidates is in fact the shorter
>
> i mean we wouldnt have to be quite so academic as to calculate
> the entire job before retiring
>
> or maybe we could answer the question purely theoretically
> even before beginning the academic work
> by somehow comparing the relative scales of 3 miles & 3 acres
>
> for perhaps we have a nonstarter here due to incomparability of
> scale alone
>
> but more below
>
> > Your analogy to the "angels on a pin" argument made me
>
> realize that your
>
> > devotion to the "definite length theory for fractal boundaries" is
>
> a matter
>
> > of faith for you, and is therefore impervious to logic. Would you
>
> agree?
>
> > > Please let's not have the "how many angels can dance on
>
> the head of htis
>
> > > pin" discussion again. We can and do measure natural
>
> borders, and we don't
>
> > > need an electron microscope to do it.
>
> kevin i myself really cant & really dont measure natural borders
> but i concede maybe you can & do
> at least to your own satisfaction & many others too
> & that is fine with me
>
> also
> what satisfies me most about boundarypoint is our express
> focus here on the actual boundary points themselves
> rather than merely on the boundary lines or the areas they
> enclose
>
> & maybe we should have a place called boundaryline too
> &or boundaryplace &or anyplace less punctilious etc
> where we really could please you by ignoring our angels
>
> but i think as long as we are try pointing
> just as a matter of fun if not also of faith
> we cant & dont & wont ignore the points nor the truth we are
> trying for
>
>
>
>
>
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--
Brian J. Butler
BJB Software, Inc.
508-429-1441
bjbutler@...
http://www.bjbsoftware.com