ok arty pants
convinced yet too
catholic encyclopedia citing your own source to the contrary
notwithstanding
well then go for it
or rather i mean sit on it
--- In
BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "L. A. Nadybal"
<lnadybal@c...> wrote:
> This is going to be a long to simmer back, burner kind of
research.
> I've only got my notes and some faded thremal paper
photocopies... and
> I'm not about to spend $200 or whatever for the old books just
to
> confirm for third parties what I already am convinced of myself.
I
> get up to the Library of Congress now and again, and I'll add a
couple
> of these titles to my list for my next book request - and we'll see
> what comes out.
>
> I'm still going after the German stuff based on more easily
obtainable
> materials that I know of.
>
> LN
>
> --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "aletheiak"
<aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "aletheiak"
> > <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> > > often attacked but never sacked
> > > evidently because the papal palace itself was impregnable
> > >
> >
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avignon#Avignon_under_the_Popes
> >
> > & here is why
> > http://www.ib.hu-berlin.de/~wumsta/Milkau/169-2.jpg
> > yikes
> >
> > & this
> > http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02158a.htm
> > which cites your charpenne book
> > seems to explain the supposed sacks away as mere
> > sequestrations at most
> >
> > presumably sequestrations of everything but the fortress
> >
> >
> > nevertheless
> > i could still see some point in searching some more for
> > evidence of a sequestration & restoration of darbous
> > or of any other satellite prospects you can recall by name
> >
> > but nothing has come up for me yet
> >
> >
> > so i guess there is nothing left to do but find & read
charpenne
> > to see if he really says what you say he says about it
> > or them
> > that the catholic encyclopedia doesnt pick up on
> >
> > & that ought to be easy & pleasant enough
> > considering the prize that is up for grabs here
> >
> > to prove a veritable exception that proves a veritable rule
> >
> > also
> > your suggestion of certain other papal states coming & going
> > over the years has to be taken seriously too
> > tho i cant yet think of any that came & went
> > or went & came
> > in quite the way i think we are talking about & looking for
> >
> >
> > so i dont deny the possibility of what you are claiming
> > especially where church properties are concerned
> > for i agree this would be a great place to concentrate any
search
> > but i would still like to see one clear example found
> > of clave resurrection qed
> >
> >
> > > > there were invasions for sure
> > > > & possibly even military occupations in these years &or
> > others
> > > > i would not disagree
> > > >
> > > > but all these encyclopedias & others
> > > > http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/C/ComtatV1e.asp
> > > >
http://reference.allrefer.com/encyclopedia/C/ComtatVe.html
> > > >
> >
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Comtat-Venaissin
> > > > agree that this clave actually remained under papal
control
> > > > continuously between 1274 & 1791
> > > > & that its only actual political demise occurred in 1791
> > > >
> > > > perhaps there is room for a difference of opinion in this
case
> > > > depending on the particulars of the invasions &or
> > occupations
> > > > of which i am admittedly unaware
> > > > but i havent found any hard evidence of the demises you
> > claim
> > > >
> > > > anyway
> > > > please carry on
> > > > if you can
> > > >
> > > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "L. A. Nadybal"
> > > > <lnadybal@c...> wrote:
> > > > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "aletheiak"
> > > > <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > strut your stuff len
> > > > >
> > > > > OK "smarty pants" - here goes: this is Nr. 1.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Comtat Venaissin is limited by the rivers Rhône
and
> > > > Durance and
> > > > > the Mount Ventoux. It is named after its former capital
city
> > > > Venasque
> > > > > (Vindascinum), now a village of about 600 inhabitants.
> > > > >
> > > > > In the XIIIth century, the Comtat Venaissin belonged to
> > > > Alphonse de
> > > > > Poitiers (1220-1271), a Capetian prince, son of king of
> > > France
> > > > Louis
> > > > > VIII. Some authorities say it was ceded to the pope in
1218
> > > by
> > > > > Raymond VII, count of Toulouse. Alphonse (or Philip
the
> > > > Bold??)
> > > > > bequeathed (or ceded??)the Comtat to the Holy See,
which
> > > > incorporated
> > > > > it in 1274. On 19 June 1348, countess Jeanne
> > (1326-1382),
> > > > better known
> > > > > as queen Jeanne de Naples, sold Avignon to pope
> > Clement
> > > VI,
> > > > who
> > > > > incorporated it into Comtat. Avignon and the Comtat
> > > Venaissin
> > > > then
> > > > > formed the 'Papal enclave', which developed
independently
> > > > from France.
> > > > > The enclave, which was geographically detached from
> > other
> > > > parts of
> > > > > the Papal states, itself had an exclave to its east called
> > > > "Darbous".
> > > > >
> > > > > The economical and cultural development of the
enclave
> > > > encouraged the
> > > > > kings of France to attempt to grab it. The enclave was
taken
> > > > over by
> > > > > the French in 1663, again in 1668 and yet again
between
> > > > 1768-1774. In
> > > > > 1791, the bourgeois and the merchants of Avignon
> > promoted
> > > > the
> > > > > incorporation of the enclave to France, which was
effective
> > on
> > > > 14
> > > > > September 1791. The Holy See recognized the
annexion
> > only
> > > > in 1814.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, here we have an enclave and it's satellite exclave
that
> > > > "came and
> > > > > went" at least three times.
> > > > >
> > > > > For a map - see my site:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
http://exclave.info/former/papalstates/papalfrance/papalfrance.ht
> > > > ml