This is going to be a long to simmer back, burner kind of research.
I've only got my notes and some faded thremal paper photocopies... and
I'm not about to spend $200 or whatever for the old books just to
confirm for third parties what I already am convinced of myself. I
get up to the Library of Congress now and again, and I'll add a couple
of these titles to my list for my next book request - and we'll see
what comes out.
I'm still going after the German stuff based on more easily obtainable
materials that I know of.
LN
--- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "aletheiak" <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "aletheiak"
> <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> > often attacked but never sacked
> > evidently because the papal palace itself was impregnable
> >
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avignon#Avignon_under_the_Popes
>
> & here is why
> http://www.ib.hu-berlin.de/~wumsta/Milkau/169-2.jpg
> yikes
>
> & this
> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02158a.htm
> which cites your charpenne book
> seems to explain the supposed sacks away as mere
> sequestrations at most
>
> presumably sequestrations of everything but the fortress
>
>
> nevertheless
> i could still see some point in searching some more for
> evidence of a sequestration & restoration of darbous
> or of any other satellite prospects you can recall by name
>
> but nothing has come up for me yet
>
>
> so i guess there is nothing left to do but find & read charpenne
> to see if he really says what you say he says about it
> or them
> that the catholic encyclopedia doesnt pick up on
>
> & that ought to be easy & pleasant enough
> considering the prize that is up for grabs here
>
> to prove a veritable exception that proves a veritable rule
>
> also
> your suggestion of certain other papal states coming & going
> over the years has to be taken seriously too
> tho i cant yet think of any that came & went
> or went & came
> in quite the way i think we are talking about & looking for
>
>
> so i dont deny the possibility of what you are claiming
> especially where church properties are concerned
> for i agree this would be a great place to concentrate any search
> but i would still like to see one clear example found
> of clave resurrection qed
>
>
> > > there were invasions for sure
> > > & possibly even military occupations in these years &or
> others
> > > i would not disagree
> > >
> > > but all these encyclopedias & others
> > > http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/C/ComtatV1e.asp
> > > http://reference.allrefer.com/encyclopedia/C/ComtatVe.html
> > >
> http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Comtat-Venaissin
> > > agree that this clave actually remained under papal control
> > > continuously between 1274 & 1791
> > > & that its only actual political demise occurred in 1791
> > >
> > > perhaps there is room for a difference of opinion in this case
> > > depending on the particulars of the invasions &or
> occupations
> > > of which i am admittedly unaware
> > > but i havent found any hard evidence of the demises you
> claim
> > >
> > > anyway
> > > please carry on
> > > if you can
> > >
> > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "L. A. Nadybal"
> > > <lnadybal@c...> wrote:
> > > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "aletheiak"
> > > <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> > > > > strut your stuff len
> > > >
> > > > OK "smarty pants" - here goes: this is Nr. 1.
> > > >
> > > > The Comtat Venaissin is limited by the rivers Rhône and
> > > Durance and
> > > > the Mount Ventoux. It is named after its former capital city
> > > Venasque
> > > > (Vindascinum), now a village of about 600 inhabitants.
> > > >
> > > > In the XIIIth century, the Comtat Venaissin belonged to
> > > Alphonse de
> > > > Poitiers (1220-1271), a Capetian prince, son of king of
> > France
> > > Louis
> > > > VIII. Some authorities say it was ceded to the pope in 1218
> > by
> > > > Raymond VII, count of Toulouse. Alphonse (or Philip the
> > > Bold??)
> > > > bequeathed (or ceded??)the Comtat to the Holy See, which
> > > incorporated
> > > > it in 1274. On 19 June 1348, countess Jeanne
> (1326-1382),
> > > better known
> > > > as queen Jeanne de Naples, sold Avignon to pope
> Clement
> > VI,
> > > who
> > > > incorporated it into Comtat. Avignon and the Comtat
> > Venaissin
> > > then
> > > > formed the 'Papal enclave', which developed independently
> > > from France.
> > > > The enclave, which was geographically detached from
> other
> > > parts of
> > > > the Papal states, itself had an exclave to its east called
> > > "Darbous".
> > > >
> > > > The economical and cultural development of the enclave
> > > encouraged the
> > > > kings of France to attempt to grab it. The enclave was taken
> > > over by
> > > > the French in 1663, again in 1668 and yet again between
> > > 1768-1774. In
> > > > 1791, the bourgeois and the merchants of Avignon
> promoted
> > > the
> > > > incorporation of the enclave to France, which was effective
> on
> > > 14
> > > > September 1791. The Holy See recognized the annexion
> only
> > > in 1814.
> > > >
> > > > So, here we have an enclave and it's satellite exclave that
> > > "came and
> > > > went" at least three times.
> > > >
> > > > For a map - see my site:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://exclave.info/former/papalstates/papalfrance/papalfrance.ht
> > > ml