--- In
BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "aletheiak"
<aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> often attacked but never sacked
> evidently because the papal palace itself was impregnable
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avignon#Avignon_under_the_Popes
& here is why
http://www.ib.hu-berlin.de/~wumsta/Milkau/169-2.jpg
yikes
& this
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02158a.htm
which cites your charpenne book
seems to explain the supposed sacks away as mere
sequestrations at most
presumably sequestrations of everything but the fortress
nevertheless
i could still see some point in searching some more for
evidence of a sequestration & restoration of darbous
or of any other satellite prospects you can recall by name
but nothing has come up for me yet
so i guess there is nothing left to do but find & read charpenne
to see if he really says what you say he says about it
or them
that the catholic encyclopedia doesnt pick up on
& that ought to be easy & pleasant enough
considering the prize that is up for grabs here
to prove a veritable exception that proves a veritable rule
also
your suggestion of certain other papal states coming & going
over the years has to be taken seriously too
tho i cant yet think of any that came & went
or went & came
in quite the way i think we are talking about & looking for
so i dont deny the possibility of what you are claiming
especially where church properties are concerned
for i agree this would be a great place to concentrate any search
but i would still like to see one clear example found
of clave resurrection qed
> > there were invasions for sure
> > & possibly even military occupations in these years &or
others
> > i would not disagree
> >
> > but all these encyclopedias & others
> > http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/C/ComtatV1e.asp
> > http://reference.allrefer.com/encyclopedia/C/ComtatVe.html
> >
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Comtat-Venaissin
> > agree that this clave actually remained under papal control
> > continuously between 1274 & 1791
> > & that its only actual political demise occurred in 1791
> >
> > perhaps there is room for a difference of opinion in this case
> > depending on the particulars of the invasions &or
occupations
> > of which i am admittedly unaware
> > but i havent found any hard evidence of the demises you
claim
> >
> > anyway
> > please carry on
> > if you can
> >
> > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "L. A. Nadybal"
> > <lnadybal@c...> wrote:
> > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "aletheiak"
> > <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> > > > strut your stuff len
> > >
> > > OK "smarty pants" - here goes: this is Nr. 1.
> > >
> > > The Comtat Venaissin is limited by the rivers Rhône and
> > Durance and
> > > the Mount Ventoux. It is named after its former capital city
> > Venasque
> > > (Vindascinum), now a village of about 600 inhabitants.
> > >
> > > In the XIIIth century, the Comtat Venaissin belonged to
> > Alphonse de
> > > Poitiers (1220-1271), a Capetian prince, son of king of
> France
> > Louis
> > > VIII. Some authorities say it was ceded to the pope in 1218
> by
> > > Raymond VII, count of Toulouse. Alphonse (or Philip the
> > Bold??)
> > > bequeathed (or ceded??)the Comtat to the Holy See, which
> > incorporated
> > > it in 1274. On 19 June 1348, countess Jeanne
(1326-1382),
> > better known
> > > as queen Jeanne de Naples, sold Avignon to pope
Clement
> VI,
> > who
> > > incorporated it into Comtat. Avignon and the Comtat
> Venaissin
> > then
> > > formed the 'Papal enclave', which developed independently
> > from France.
> > > The enclave, which was geographically detached from
other
> > parts of
> > > the Papal states, itself had an exclave to its east called
> > "Darbous".
> > >
> > > The economical and cultural development of the enclave
> > encouraged the
> > > kings of France to attempt to grab it. The enclave was taken
> > over by
> > > the French in 1663, again in 1668 and yet again between
> > 1768-1774. In
> > > 1791, the bourgeois and the merchants of Avignon
promoted
> > the
> > > incorporation of the enclave to France, which was effective
on
> > 14
> > > September 1791. The Holy See recognized the annexion
only
> > in 1814.
> > >
> > > So, here we have an enclave and it's satellite exclave that
> > "came and
> > > went" at least three times.
> > >
> > > For a map - see my site:
> > >
> >
>
http://exclave.info/former/papalstates/papalfrance/papalfrance.ht
> > ml