You need to read what I wrote - I said purple
ANNOTATIONS. If something changed it would have been
noted on the map just like the other things that
changed - borders, new roads, new place names, etc. -
were noted on the map in purple. If the claves were
eliminated that would have been noted in purple.
And
it is NOT the job of the clovoscopist to prove they
still exist. Them existing is the status quo. If YOU
challenge the status quo, it is YOUR job to justify
it. That means with facts or some sort of
international treaty or accord. Not just your own
intuition - that doesn't cut it.
By your "logic" I could tell you that the AMAZGE
tripoint no longer exists. You think it does? Well
it's your job to justify it. The tripoint hasn't been
heard from since the last official map or accord. So
there's no reason to believe AMAZGE still exists
unless you can prove that it does. For, "...[I]
certainly cant prove the negative rather it is the job
of the [try pointer] to prove the affirmative."

--- aletheiak <aletheiak@...> wrote:

> --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, Michael
> Kaufman
> <mikekaufman79@y...> wrote:
> > The fact that they were left alone and no purple
> > annotations were made to them should tell you they
> > continued unchanged.
>
> not necessarily
>
> if the claves were discontinued
> their borders couldnt & wouldnt have been redrawn
> but only
> eliminated or forgotten
>
> would the mapmakers have just scrawled a big purple
> cross
> over each clave to let us know in that case
>
> or exactly how would they redraw something that had
> completely
> vanished
> short of erasing it
> which they couldnt do
>
> they could only have overprinted it in purple
> somehow
> yet no manner of doing so that i can think of would
> have correctly
> represented the new reality either
>
> yikes
> peculiar but apparently true if all you have is
> purple
>
>
> or what if they didnt know because there was no
> information
> whether because the claves hadnt been heard from or
> otherwise
>
> &or what if they didnt even think to check or notice
>
> because they were only making a rather limited set
> of revisions
> & it might never have occurred to them to even ask
> about these
> particular details so far off the beaten border
> tracks that they
> were focusing on
>
> of what if many other what ifs we cant even imagine
>
> Just like everything else with
> > no purple annotations continued unchanged. Note
> that
> > most of the length of all the borders on the map
> was
> > UNchanged. If there were a change to the claves
> in
> > 1978, it would have been noted in purple on the
> map.
> > So the lack of any changes should tell you they
> have
> > indeed been heard from as of 1978, and not just
> 1976.
>
> for the reasons given above
> i cant reasonably draw this conclusion but only the
> opposite
>
> > And you have to assume the status quo unless you
> have
> > something to counter it. Right up until today.
> Do
> > you have any proof these claves no longer exist?
>
> no i only have no proof later than 1976 that they do
>
> & i certainly cant prove the negative
>
> rather it is the job of the clavoscopist to prove
> the affirmative
>
> end inserts
>
> > --- aletheiak <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> >
> > > because it indicates that the depiction of the
> clave
> > > borders in
> > > black on this map dates from the first printing
> in
> > > 1976
> > > & that for whatever reason these claves & their
> > > borders were
> > > ignored when all the other borders were revised
> &
> > > overprinted in
> > > purple in 1978
> > >
> > > but i think the purple probably indicates actual
> > > border revisions
> > > rather than corrections of mistakes
> > >
> > > presumably these authoritative maps were correct
> > > when the
> > > borders were first drawn in black
> > > & were correct again when they were revised in
> > > purple
> > >
> > > & the fact that the borders of these claves were
> not
> > > purpled over
> > > could mean that they continued unchanged in 1978
>
> > > & possibly even right up to the present
> > >
> > > or it could mean that they ceased to exist by
> then
> > > or later
> > >
> > > & we dont know which it does mean
> > >
> > > but without any subsequent trace or mention of
> them
> > > anywhere
> > > else that we do know of
> > > i think it is fair to say they have not been
> heard
> > > from in 28 years
> > >
> > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, Michael
> > > Kaufman
> > > <mikekaufman79@y...> wrote:
> > > > Why would 14183 suggest that?
> > > >
> > > > --- aletheiak <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > thanx chris
> > > > >
> > > > > it is unclear if any of these people are
> > > > > credentialed in clavoscopy
> > > > >
> > > > > but
> > > > >
> > > > > regarding the 2 extra quasiclaves or
> maybeclaves
> > > > > that i just
> > > > > questioned
> > > > > not here below but in the separate message
> 15273
> > > > >
> > > > > a careful reading of the text in your first
> link
> > > > > here below
> > > > > especially
> > > > > ob sie je eine reale rolle gespielt haben
> ist
> > > > > unbekannt
> > > > > which in normal barbarian means
> > > > > whether they ever actually performed as
> claves
> > > is
> > > > > unknown
> > > > >
> > > > > plus
> > > > >
> > > > > a careful reading of the info in message
> 14183
> > > > >
> > > > > together
> > > > > suggest that these supposed claves or
> clavicules
> > >
> > > > > if indeed they ever really existed at all
> > > > > may actually not have been heard from in at
> > > least 28
> > > > > years
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "chris
> > > schulz"
> > > > >
> > > > > <23568@g...> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > >
> http://home.pages.at/maxifant/Frames/armenien.htm
> > > > > >
> > >
> http://home.pages.at/maxifant/Frames/karabakh.htm
> > > > > >
> > > > > > here you may find additional maps.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > regards, chris
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Michael Kaufman
> > > > > > To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 7:49
> AM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re:
> enclaves on
> > > > > stamps
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ok cool. But we have 6 total exclaves,
> not
> > > 4.
> > > > > > So it must be the 4 others which are
> > > > > non-Nakhichevan
> > > > > > instead of 2.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> http://www.vasa.abo.fi/users/rpalmber/enclaves.htm
> > > > > >
> http://home.no.net/enklaver/azerbaijan.htm
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- aletheiak <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > politically kyarki is part of the
> > > nakhichevan
> > > > > > > autonomous republic
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > but of course topologically both
> kyarki &
> > > the
> > > > > > > greater chunk of
> > > > > > > nakhichevan are exclaves of the
> azerbaijan
> > > > > republic
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > & the 2 other azerbaijan exclaves are
> not
> > > part
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > nakhichevan
> > > > > > > autonomous republic but of the
> azerbaijan
> > > > > republic
> > > > > > > proper
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com,
> > > Michael
> > > > > > > Kaufman
> > > > > > > <mikekaufman79@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Is Kyarki part of Nakhichevan or is
> it a
> > > > > separate
> > > > > > > > Azerbaijani exclave? I'm guessing
> yes
> > > due
> > > > > to the
> > > > > > > > close proximity, but would like to
> know
> > > for
> > > > > sure.
> > > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- Brendan Whyte <bwhyte@u...>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Another Nakhichevan issue on ebay,
> > > showing
> > > > > > > Kiarky.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > AND the seller is in Lithuania!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3495&i

> > > > > > > tem=5517623720&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Brendan
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________
> > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty
> > > viruses.
> > > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
> > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
>

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail