Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] my vatican credo so far<br/>
Date: Apr 16, 2004 @ 05:00<br/>
Author: Lowell G. McManus (&quot;Lowell G. McManus&quot; &lt;mcmanus71496@...&gt;)<br/>
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<div id="ygrps-yiv-1742220091">Mike wrote:<br/>
<br/>
<blockquote><span title="ireply"> &gt; it is clear the propylaea are curved as well as stepped on the outside<br/>
&gt; & it is clear the basic colonnades have stairs all along their inner edges<br/>
&gt; but i still dont know if the basic colonnades also have similar stairs along<br/>
&gt; their outer edges<br/>
&gt; & if so what relation these might have to the basic itva ellipse<br/>
<br/>
 </span></blockquote>If we go back to the web site from which the two pics with the overlaid boundary<br/>
lines came, we find many additional photos and the whole voluminous history of<br/>
the boundary, from the Lateran Treaty, through the Mixed Italo-Vatican Technical<br/>
Commission (1929-1933), to what the author calls &quot;The New Boundaries.&quot;  Read it<br/>
all (or try to, because it&#39;s all in Italian) at<br/>
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.globalgeografia.com/europa/index_scv.htm">http://www.globalgeografia.com/europa/index_scv.htm</a> .<br/>
<br/>
Yes, the colonnades do have steps along the outer edges, as can be seen in the<br/>
photo at <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.globalgeografia.com/europa/vaticano/fig03b.jpg">http://www.globalgeografia.com/europa/vaticano/fig03b.jpg</a> .  This photo<br/>
and the other one at <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.globalgeografia.com/europa/vaticano/fig03a.jpg">http://www.globalgeografia.com/europa/vaticano/fig03a.jpg</a><br/>
look toward the same propylaeum from two different directions, and they show<br/>
that the outer edge of the travertine strip aligns with the outer edges of the<br/>
columnar plinths, ignoring the projection of the propylaeum.  The author<br/>
believes that the outer edge of the plinths was intended by the treaty, because<br/>
the external steps were paved over in contemporary photos.<br/>
<br/>
In his words:<br/>
<br/>
    Il terzo comma definisce territorio vaticano la zona all&#39;interno del bordo<br/>
esterno dei bracci del Colonnato Berniniano e loro prolungamento. Si parla di<br/>
linee esterne non specificando bene cosa siano. L&#39;unico modo per capirne il<br/>
significato è quello di conoscere la situazione del Colonnato a quell&#39;epoca: il<br/>
livello della strada arrivava, in base a foto dell&#39;epoca, alla base del plinto<br/>
delle colonne. Ciò giustifica la linea continua della pianta dell&#39;Allegato I.<br/>
<br/>
    Il lastricato di travertino che segna il confine, largo circa 0.60 m, è in<br/>
corrispondenza del filare dei plinti delle colonne esterne del Colonnato, mentre<br/>
la planimetria firmata in Commissione non evidenzia nemmeno i due propilei<br/>
confermandone l&#39;esclusione per quelli verso l&#39;Italia.<br/>
<br/>
    Correndo la linea di confine lungo il lato esterno del plinto delle colonne<br/>
del filare esterno, vengono a trovarsi in territorio italiano le colonne dei<br/>
propilei del Colonnato rivolte verso Via della Conciliazione, il cornicione e<br/>
gli scalini esterni.<br/>
<br/>
In this interpretation, the author applies the treaty&#39;s specification of &quot;the<br/>
external edge of the arms of the Bernini Colonnade and their prolongation&quot; very<br/>
literally to the columns themselves, leaving the steps, the cornice, and the<br/>
propylaea in Italy.  On the other hand, who is to say that the term &quot;colonnade&quot;<br/>
does not refer to the entire architectural structure, with all of its<br/>
intricacies?  The fact that the steps were paved over as of 1929 does not remove<br/>
them from the structure if Gianlorenzo Bernini put them there in the 17th<br/>
century.  Likewise, the fact that the travertine strip (assuming that Bernini<br/>
put it there too) aligns with the plinths and not with the steps, the cornice,<br/>
or the propylaea proves nothing about the location of the boundary about these<br/>
other features.  After all, the talented Mr. Bernini had no idea that he was<br/>
designing a future international boundary.  If he had, he might have made it<br/>
smoother.<br/>
<br/>
Lowell G. McManus<br/>
Leesville, Louisiana, USA</div>