Subject: Re: Largest enclave
Date: Mar 13, 2001 @ 22:36
Author: peter.smaardijk@and.com (peter.smaardijk@...)
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In short: claves should always be surrounded by dry land. We might
expand this notion, and include territorial waters as well (inland
waters (like rivers) are already included in the notion 'dry land').
I would feel for it to do that. But no further. Territorial waters
are just the same as dry territory, except for one thing as Martin
pointed out: 'innocent passage' of ships. It has to stay innocent,
though. If you're up to anything nasty, you are going to have to deal
with the law of the country concerned.....
B.t.w.: I just looked up the words 'enclave' and 'exclave' in a Dutch
dictionary, and in both cases the word 'grondgebied' (meaning
territory, but litterally 'territory of soil') is the pivotal word in
the explanation.

Peter S.

--- In BoundaryPoint@y..., michael donner <m@d...> wrote:
> yes i agree
> & i see you have also anticipated my hole card point here too
>
> the overseas classes
> both the insular & the continental
> of so called claves dont at all have the same keyhole feel as the
normal sort
> so at least etymologically there has been a slippage & distortion
here that
> i would also tend to back away from
>
> m
>
>
> >
> >michael donner wrote:
> >
> >> thanxx to peter & especially to martin for the further clave &
sovereignty
> >> elucidations
> >> & i am glad to learn equatorial guinea is truly exclavic
> >> nicholsons usage of land area to the contrary notwithstanding
> >>
> >> but i must say this throws my whole previous understanding
> >> or i should say misunderstanding
> >> of maritime tri sovereign points into the drink
> >> so it is back to the underwater drawing board for me
> >> & you can probably expect a considerable retrenchment from my
earlier guess
> >> of 160 maritime tri country points worldwide
> >>
> >> upon further relection also
> >> i would just like to retreat an extra inch here by adding the
following
> >> hopefully final nuance to clave usage
> >>
> >> altho saying flatly
> >> an enclave of any country
> >> still seems to me to be an abuse of the word of
> >> nevertheless it is not really an abuse of the word in to say
> >> llivia is an exclave of spain or a spanish exclave in france
> >> while i would still prefer to say within france in such cases
> >>
> >> but it would still seem to me to be an abuse of the word in to
say
> >> llivia is an exclave in france
> >> without first identifying it as an exclave of spain or a
spanish exclave
> >>
> >> otherwise i wouldnt want to budge from the positions outlined
below
> >>
> >> m
> >
> >I wonder if you can call Eq. Guinea exclavic. Is the island
completely
> >detached from the continental
> >part? I would say not, because in order to go from the one to the
other,
> >you go through 1. Eq.
> >Guinean terr. waters, 2. international waters (thus belonging to
everyone,
> >including Eq. Guinea), 3.
> >Eq. Guinean terr. waters once more. I think if international
waters are in
> >the way, there is usually
> >less reason to call something an enclave.
> >
> >Peter S.
> >
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