Note that I wrote the "original" island which was +/- 3 ac in size. The 1834
NY-NJ compact gave NY jurisdiction over land above the low water level,
while NJ had jurisdiction of all land submerged. When the US Gov't began
filling operations and expanded the size of the island in the late 1800s to
use it as an immigration center, the seed of the dispute was sown.
The 1997 SCOTUS decision recognized that in 1834, expansion of the island
was not envisioned; so that the dredging and filling operations that
followed took place on submerged -- i.e. NJ -- land and therefore is NJ, not
NY. So the island is split jurisdiction along the 1834 low water mark -- and
despite the earlier arguments about the supposed impossibility of measuring
a water boundary or other physical boundary, has in this case been clearly
defined.
What I want to know and have not yet received a clear answer is this: Since
the NY-NJ boundary officially runs down the middle of the Hudson and out the
center of the bay itself, and Ellis and Bedloe's (Liberty) islands lie
wholly on the NJ side of that centerline, are those islands that are under
NY jurisdiction merely pieces of NJ that are ruled by NY, or are they
corporately part of the official lands of the state of NY, that is, true
outclaves of NY?
-----Original Message-----
From: L. A. Nadybal [mailto:
lnadybal@...]
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 6:33 AM
To:
BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: American State Boundaries
How does your reply square with what CNN wrote in its report on the
Supreme Court case from the end of May 03 where it stated:
"As a result, most of the island in New York Harbor from now on must
be considered Ellis Island, New Jersey"?
I agree the Feds don't have a mini-DC there, but the Sumpreme Court
only said, apparently, that the Feds don't have the right to alter the
border of two states at that point. Does the dispute go on?
LN
--- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Flynn, Kevin" <flynnk@r...> wrote:
> Ellis Island, while owned by the federal government, is not federal
> territory with a boundary to be established. The 3-acre +/- original
island
> is NY and the infill surrounding area, and surrounding waters, is NJ.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: L. A. Nadybal [mailto:lnadybal@c...]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 8:15 PM
> To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: American State Boundaries
>
>
> --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "acroorca2002" <orc@o...> wrote:
> > in reply to craig:
>
> >"it is noteworthy that the ellis island njny loop was originally
> >fractal but since it is based today on a former rather than the present
> >shoreline the supreme court adjudicator or special master was forced to
> >rationalize the line into a series of plotted points"
>
> That wouldn't come into play as an aswer to the question about
> "interstate" boundaries, because the part of Ellis Island that is
> federal would make it the second place within the country that is not
> a part of any state. For that reason, we couldn't consider the DC-VA
> border in trying to answer the question. There's got to be a tripoint
> at one place on the perimiter of the federal portion of Ellis island
> and another at some other location on the perimiter from which the
> joint border continues anew. NJ-NY will not have a common border
> where the federal portion interrupts.
>
> And, to close off with the "but..." question? Did the Supreme Court
> actually say that the plot of federal land on the island is not part
> of either state or did the court do a "favorite" and leave things
> ambiguous by saying only that neither state had jurisdiction?
>
> LN
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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