Despite whatever degree of spuriousness in the precision, it's the best
that we've got for now.
Yes, I agree that we are both probably close enough to call it Class C
if we were on-site, which is pretty good considering that its
purportedly unmarked anyway.
Lowell G. McManus
Leesville, Louisiana, USA
----- Original Message -----
From: "aletheiak" <aletheiak@...>
To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 9:57 PM
Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: yikes kztmuz is reportedly undelineated &
definitely elusive
ok nice
so if live local is any more reliable in its border depictions than our
famously unreliable
google is
then your tripoint position guess would tend to be that much more
reliable than mine
or vice versa
for in fact we dont know which if indeed either is any better than the
other to begin with
but i trust you realize that our 200 meter difference is already but a
small fraction of the
thickness of the google border lines at their tightest zoom level
so my guess is we are in both cases just compounding the spurious
precision that is
already built into these systems
i do feel pretty sure we are both in the correct square kilometer
or maybe even the right few hundred square meters
but not necessarily any better than that
& as for the nature of the location
well that involves several further degrees of speculation
but i see the right map is in stock & could be had for a mere 50 dollars
at omnimap
--- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Lowell G. McManus" <lgm@...>
wrote:
>
> Yes, we surely could use one of those old Soviet maps. I looked for
> one
> also, but struck out.
>
> My statement about "the location of the tripoint according to all of
> these mapping services" meant that they all agree on the shapes of the
> boundaries and place the tripoint in the same part of the depression
> as
> best as can be told on the various scales.
>
> I placed the pushpin thus: Live Local, like Google Maps, dispenses
> with
> the boundary overlays as one zooms in closely. However, Live Local
> allows one to move and precisely place a pushpin using a crosshair
> cursor. Once placed, it stays in place at any zoom level. I placed
> it
> as accurately as possible on the tripoint, then zoomed in to see where
> it was within the enlarged view. Several tries produced substantially
> the same result where you saw the point of the pushpin in my
> attachment.
>
> Lowell G. McManus
> Leesville, Louisiana, USA
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "aletheia kallos" <aletheiak@...>
> To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 3:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] yikes kztmuz is reportedly undelineated &
> definitely elusive
>
>
> > beautiful
> > thanx
> > great fun
> > & please look for a few inserts below
> >
> > --- "Lowell G. McManus" <lgm@...> wrote:
> >
> >> I agree that there is quite an escarpment there, and
> >> the name Chink
> >> Kaplankyr might well refer to it rather than the
> >> depression at its foot
> >> in which the intermittent lake is located.
> >
> > if you will survey the usages of chink say in this
> > local ustyurt sampling
> > http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=chink+ustyurt&ie=UTF
-8&oe=UTF-8
> >
> > youll see a range of evident meanings covering
> > practically everything from the plateau itself & down
> > the scarp to the depression at its base
> > e x c e p t
> > the bottom of the depression itself
> > so it seems to me at this point call it anything but a
> > salt pan or salt flat
> >
> >> Your Encarta map linked below clearly shows the
> >> below-sea-level
> >> depressions, numerous intermittent streamcourses
> >> flowing into them, and
> >> some water in the one near the tripoint. It also
> >> shows the tripoint as
> >> being below sea level. (Check the Encarta legend
> >> for the meaning of
> >> that darkest green.)
> >
> > there was or is no question about the elevation in
> > relation to sea level
> > tho this is an interesting excursion
> > but only a question of what sort of terrain & ground
> > the tripoint is in
> > that might cause a problem with the monumentation
> >
> > i began with crumbly & steep based on the chink photo
> > i flashed but i agree your guessed position pinpointed
> > in your second attachment pic on much lower ground
> > than mine & some 200 meters to the east of it might
> > tend to be flatter & darker if not danker or damper
> > or even as you conclude headlong in ooze
> >
> > so it becomes a question first of why our guesses are
> > these 200 or so horizontal meters apart
> >
> > or perhaps only a question of what you mean by
> > according to all of these various mapping services
> >
> > & then of how you evaluated & or used them to reach
> > your pushpin conclusion
> > not at all far from mine at the natural arrowhead
> > point
> > & yet so distinctly different in character from it
> >
> >> Now, if you'll go to the Google Maps image linked in
> >> your message below
> >> and zoom out, you will see that the tripoint
> >> depression and its narrow
> >> southeastern neighbor have some water and some salt
> >> flats, as do the
> >> Kara-Bogaz Gol (Garabogazköl), which is naturally
> >> poldered off from the
> >> Caspian Sea to the west and the Sarygamysh Köli
> >> (Ozera Sarygamysh) to
> >> the northeast. The tripoint seems to be wet at the
> >> time of this
> >> snapshot from space. The lake in the tripoint
> >> depression varies in size
> >> over time.
> >
> > your position may or may not be characteristically wet
> > but it is hard to imagine mine wet except infrequently
> > in the rain or a humongous flash flood
> >
> > end of my inserts but please do add more
> >
> > & btw we could really use the good old soviet topo of
> > this point at this point
> > which might indeed resolve everything with authority
> > but neither the berkeley nor the mapy troves provide
> > it online
> >
> > i mean
> > just in case anyone knows where to find one
> > it must be a beauty as well as a rarity
> >
> >> In the attached 1.jpg, you will see that the
> >> tripoint depression and its
> >> narrow southeastern neighbor are dry--all salt and
> >> no water. In the
> >> wetter close-up 2.jpg attached, the very point of
> >> the pushpin indicates
> >> the location of the tripoint according to all of
> >> these various mapping
> >> services. The escarpment and its associated talus
> >> are clearly visible
> >> on the northern rim of the depression, but the
> >> tripoint is well down in
> >> the dark ooze.
> >>
> >> Lowell G. McManus
> >> Leesville, Louisiana, USA
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "aletheia kallos" <aletheiak@...>
> >> To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
> >> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 9:35 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] yikes kztmuz is
> >> reportedly undelineated &
> >> definitely elusive
> >>
> >>
> >> > but it is clear as well as credible
> >> > when i zoom encarta all the way in for topography
> >> &
> >> > boundaries
> >> >
> >>
> > http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/mapcenter/map.aspx?
TextLatitude=41.399513160184476&TextLongitude=56.029051315699746&TextAltitude
=8&TextSelectedEntity=10107400&SearchEnc=false&MapStyle=Comprehensive&MapSize
=Medium&MapStyleSelectedIndex=0&searchTextMap=goklenkuyu&MapStylesList=Compre
hensive&ZoomOnMapClickCheck=on&ResultsListbox=43.2899541104997%3B59.2412018
038095%3B5%3B10107400%3BQoraqalpoghiston+%28autonomous+republic%29%2C+Uzb
ekistan%3BMedium%3BComprehensive
> >> > & compare google for photography
> >> >
> >>
> > http://maps.google.com/?
ie=UTF8&z=10&ll=41.307729,55.994568&spn=0.505475,0.939331&t=h&om=1
> >> > that kztmuz is neither atop the plateau nor in the
> >> > salt lake
> >> > but somewhere among the chaotic breaks that lie in
> >> > between
> >> > as for example in these neighborhood views
> >> > at top in each case
> >> > http://www.stantours.com/tm_syl_ee_kap.html
> >> > http://www.ayan-travel.com/tm_syl_ee_kap.html
> >> >
> >> > --- aletheia kallos <aletheiak@...> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> --- "Lowell G. McManus" <lgm@...> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > Both of the Live Local links in your reply work
> >> >> for
> >> >> > me. I'm not clear
> >> >> > on what you're getting when you go to them.
> >> >>
> >> >> great
> >> >> i still get nothing
> >> >> or rather to be perfectly clear i get a blank
> >> white
> >> >> screen
> >> >> both normally & also when i try to go via my
> >> hotmail
> >> >> account
> >> >> which for some reason doesnt activate any links
> >> at
> >> >> all
> >> >>
> >> >> but i am not much for jumping thru hoops anyway
> >> >> so cant you just capture & send us whatever it is
> >> >> you
> >> >> are talking about
> >> >> or help us out of your predicament some other way
> >> >>
> >> >> but in any case
> >> >> whatever you may be seeing there
> >> >> please understand i dont think we are talking
> >> about
> >> >> a
> >> >> salt pan here
> >> >> whether wet or dry
> >> >> nor any crack or sink
> >> >> etymological speculations to the contrary
> >> >> nothwithstanding
> >> >> but a fairly vertical palisade
> >> >> at or near the location of the tripoint
> >> >> which thus might fall either beneath or atop or
> >> even
> >> >> right on the edge of the plateau
> >> >>
> >> >> perhaps somewhat like a wall of the llano
> >> estacado
> >> >> but
> >> >> only moreso
> >> >>
> >> >> > Apparently, though, one
> >> >> > must be logged in to access Windows Live Local.
> >> >> > It's free, but you must
> >> >> > jump through the hoop. All you need to log in
> >> is
> >> >> an
> >> >> > MSN Hotmail, MSN
> >> >> > Messenger, or Microsoft Passport account (all
> >> of
> >> >> > which are free). Any
> >> >> > of those can be used as your Windows Live ID to
> >> >> log
> >> >> > in. I have mine set
> >> >> > to automatically remember me and log me in
> >> >> whenever
> >> >> > I go to a site that
> >> >> > need it, so I didn't remember that it was
> >> >> required.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Getting an ID is worth it, because Live Local
> >> has
> >> >> > several advantages
> >> >> > over Google Earth (which also has a few of its
> >> >> own).
> >> >> > Also, Live Local
> >> >> > uses USGS aerial photos in the USA for the
> >> >> > close-ups, but they're newer
> >> >> > than those at TerraServer, and you can
> >> dynamically
> >> >> > pan and zoom them
> >> >> > with your mouse (just like you can with the
> >> >> > satellite photos on Live
> >> >> > Local and Google Earth). That alone is worth
> >> the
> >> >> > price of admission!
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Lowell G. McManus
> >> >> > Leesville, Louisiana, USA
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> > From: "aletheia kallos" <aletheiak@...>
> >> >> > To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
> >> >> > Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 6:22 PM
> >> >> > Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] yikes kztmuz is
> >> >> > reportedly undelineated &
> >> >> > definitely elusive
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > sounds interesting but
> >> >> > > is this tinyurl working normally
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > it quickly redirects my browser to
> >> >> > >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> > http://local.live.com/default.aspx?
v=2&cp=41.619802~54.78123&style=h&lvl=7&scene=1004144
> >> >> > > but this page then does nothing
> >> >> > > just like its main page also does
> >> >> > > http://local.live.com/
> >> >> > > so maybe that whole site or function is down
> >> >> > > whatever it may be or mean
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > the tinyurl site itself seems to be working
> >> fine
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > --- "Lowell G. McManus" <lgm@...>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >> There's a different NASA satellite view of
> >> the
> >> >> > >> tripoint on Windows Live
> >> >> > >> Local at http://tinyurl.com/lw7uy . This
> >> one
> >> >> > shows
> >>
> > === message truncated ===
> >
> >
> >
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