Please see my four insertions below:
Lowell G. McManus
Leesville, Louisiana, USA
----- Original Message -----
From: "aletheia kallos" <aletheiak@...>
To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 2:12 AM
Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] My visit to Campione d'Italia
> yes
> nice
> with you loud & clear
>
> & yet even having all this fully clarified
> the tripoint situation itself still isnt crystal clear
>
> all indications are that the brook bottom marks both
> arbi & chit4bica
>
> so perhaps the arbica tripoint isnt directly marked by
> either rock
You might be right.
> but might be the unmarked point where the drain passes
> directly between these 2 rocks here
> http://campione.enclaves.org/image/124-2462_img.jpg
> or
> perhaps more likely
> the intersection point at the extreme lower right
> corner of this pic
> where the visible alignment of rock 14 & post 14 hits
> the brook bottom
I would think the latter, if that is actually the dry brook bottom,
which is hard to determine. As you know, photographic perspective can
be deceptive on a steeep slope. It seems consistent that the buried
Swiss pipe ends before striking Italy. What is that just below the end
of the pipe and the piece of log holding it? Is it the edge of a plank
or international footbridge across the brook--a part of the trail shown
on the map?
> for i would trust both of them at least to be standing
> directly upon chit
> wouldnt you
Certainly rock 14 would be on it, and it seems that the red sign would
be too.
> & so the smaller stone may thus mark the arbi brook
> bottom diagonally or even indirectly
> rather than orthogonally & directly
> inasmuch as there do appear to be 1 or 2 other as yet
> unexplained stone markers in this pic too
I agree. The "B" rock does not seem to be in the brook bottom. Also,
the "B" does not face the right direction for it to be a bilateral
boundary monument. If it is a unilateral Bissone marker, then the
squarish rock directly above rock 14 and to the left of the red post
could be the corresponding Arogno marker. I hope that Craig's comments
and any photos that he took in the vicinity can give us new perspectives
on these matters.
> & wouldnt that drain outlet be about 7 meters from
> rock 14
>
> well not quite 7
>
> so maybe the true tripoint & turnpoint is a bit off
> frame there beyond the corner
>
>
>
> & similarly
>
> with regard to the other dry campione tripoint of
> arcalu
> up near the northeast corner
> which btw i garbled into arluca in a previous post
> oops
>
> in the first few paragraphs of this same 11th article
> you quote
> tho i cant necessarily make out all the german there
> either
> the text does at least appear to place the other
> arogno border in another brook bottom in the vicinity
> of markers number 1 & or 2
> without mentioning its expected lugano counterpart by
> name
> but rather a predecessor municipality named castagnola
> instead
> since this was castagnola commune before it became
> lugano in 1972
> as indicated here
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipalities_of_the_canton_of_Ticino
> so arcalu was arcaca from 1861 to 1972
>
>
> but as we are still not necessarily able to nail
> either of these tripoints
> it certainly wouldnt hurt if someone could provide
> perfectly smooth translations of these 2 most relevant
> passages of the german text
>
> --- "Lowell G. McManus" <lgm@...> wrote:
>
>> If you will go to http://campione.enclaves.org/ and
>> view the second page
>> of the "Elfer Anstand" of the 1861 treaty that
>> delimits the boundary,
>> you will find in the very center of that page:
>>
>> Die Richtung von Nr. 13 zu Nr. 14 auf weitere
>> sieben Meter über Nr. 14 hinaus verfolgend,
>> kommt man zum Tobel genannt Valle della
>> Punta, und bei diesem hört die Grenze der
>> Gemeinde Arogno auf und bginnt diejenige
>> der schweizerischen Gemeinde Bisssone.
>>
>> Von besagtem Punkte an bezeichnet das Tobel
>> selbst auf eine Länge von 610 Meter, seinen
>> Krümmungen nach gemessen, die Grenze bis
>> zu seiner Kreuzung durch die Fahrstrasse
>> zwischen Campione und Bissone, wo eine
>> kleine Kapelle steht.
>>
>> To me, this seems to say that CHIT runs, on the same
>> bearing as between
>> rocks 13 and 14, seven meters onward past rock 14 ,
>> then comes to the
>> Tobel Valle della Punta, where Arogno stops and
>> Bissone begins. From
>> there, it runs down the Tobel for 610 meters until
>> it crosses the
>> Campione-Bissone road where a small chapel stands.
>>
>> We thought that rock 14 was the southeast corner of
>> Campione, but the
>> treaty says different. This explains the curious
>> markings on its top.
>> The dimple is on the long leg of the L, not at its
>> corner. This
>> indicates that the boundary runs on a ways before
>> making the turn, just
>> as the treaty says. So, the municipal rock in the
>> background of the
>> photo seems to be the actual tripoint and the corner
>> of Campione!
>>
>> If you will look at the map at the enlarged
>> black-and-white map at
>> http://campione.enclaves.org/ , you will see that
>> the boundary does
>> indeed follow the valley, which the map calls
>> "Posero," down from 14 to
>> the road crossing at 15.
>>
>> Lowell G. McManus
>> Leesville, Louisiana, USA