OK - found a collared version which extends north a bit -
see attached.
It is hard to tell exactly what this map is saying since
there does appear to be a small line extending towards Canada at the apex of the
border in the river and no sign of the ONQC border meeting the international
border further southeast (incidentally plotting this on the Canadian map
shows a distance difference of 259m). But then why would the State of New
York Department of Public Works care about the exact location of the ONQC
border? Clearly we need to find the answer by reference to Ontario and Québec
sources since it is all about that provincial border's alignment and the USA has
no (official) interest in this.
OOPS - forgot the attachment
Unfortunately I have been unable to obtain the
relevant USGS quad from http://datagateway.nrcs.usda.gov since
o44074h6 is cut off at 45 deg N (see attached) which is just south of this
point and there is no map available from that source immediately north of
that. If anyone knows where I could obtain the missing bit I would be
grateful. I will continue to search meanwhile.
agreed that skepticism is always a good idea
& i can
add from some experience
especially so for this nyonqc baby
&
for indian & third world mapping in general of
course too
so
please dont put too fine a point on my previous
best guess of
a couple
hundred meters toward the right bank etc
&
thanx to this your
still more reliable looking but
essentially identical map
which goes
at least partway to the more authoritative
data i had been looking
for
it seems pretty likely now from their matching
depictions of the
onqc turnpoints & particularly their
matching slight overextension of
onqc beyond nyonqc
into the usa
that my maps were at least partly
copied or generated
from yours
or rather lets say from the same master
as yours by &
large
but i am still following your advice &
being skeptical
& just as skeptical of yours as of mine
because of
the glaringly mistaken caus jog yours takes
southwest from marker
774
rather than cutting this directly nw from the 45degree
sector
terminal & transition point
aka the lost ellicott rock
to
turnpoint 1 properly so called
as we know it should from the ibc coords
for the
markers & turnpoints
& downtown personal
experience
which btw makes it totally impossible to
take
advantage of the improvement your official canadian
mapping
represents for purposes of refining this guess
up to say 300 meters
or 100 yards
hahahahaha
which nevertheless i now emphatically do
anyway
hahahaha
after having combined & crunched all the data we
have
so far developed
but relying especially & most emphatically
in this
case on indian mapping
hahahaha
rather than the luxuries of
either canadian first
world or american second world
mapping
hahahhahahaha
hahahahahahaha
ahhhhhhh
& in fact
i would even like to wheedle that up to
roughly 302 meters now
back
toward the ellicott rock
from the 10 foot square window represented
by
turnpoint 1
with tears rolling down my cheeks
because after
synthesizing as much presumptive
accuracy as possible from all 3
worlds
thats exactly where i land
& i both trust it & am
skeptical of it to that extent
& since we know the geocoords of
the ellicott rock &
turnpoint 1 in degminsecdec
i think you might
even be able to coax my position out
of your gps calculator faster than i
can get it
manually with pencil & paper after reinventing
or
supplying the necessary spherical trig
which i will now proceed to
do
but i am posting this now without delay in case you or
anyone else
who has been following this would like to
join the chase & the race
to presumptive caus2nyonqc
at 10 foot range
& i would also
appreciate the backup of the
computational doublecheck
even if you
dont race but only chase
--- Hugh Wallis
<hugh@our-own-home.com> wrote:
> I would be very sceptical
of placing much/any
> reliance on that map for
> detailed and
highly precise navigation purposes.
> There is no evidence
that
> it is the output of proper surveying or reference to
>
official
> documents/treaties etc., and I would suggest that
>
there is significant
> cartographic production latitude employed to
make it
> look nice and pretty
> (and perfectly useful for most
purposes).
>
> I don't have the USGS quad for that area
(but will
> get it shortly) but
> attached is the relevant
section from the Canadian
> Government 1:50000 topo
> for
reference.
>
>
> _____
>
> From: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
>
[mailto:BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of
aletheiak
> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 3:44 AM
> To:
BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [BoundaryPoint] nyonqc
location was Re:
> special congrats may be in
> order for czdepl
improvement
>
>
> agreed & no biggie in any
case
> but a really interesting upshot of all this is the
>
following pair of more
> detailed & reliable
> looking maps
of nyonqc than i have ever seen before
> http://www.akwesasne.ca/AkwesasneMap.pdf
>
evidently confirming that its location is indeed not
> at ibc
turnpoint 1
> as the usgs topos & many other maps show
>
but at some other also probably geodetically
> specified point or
window
> a couple hundred meters closer to the right bank
> from
there
> & possibly even legally specified as being in the
>
middle of the seaway
> channel cut
> for thats what it at least
looks like
>
> --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Lowell
G.
> McManus"
> <mcmanus71496@m...>
>
wrote:
> >
> > Mike D.,
> >
> > I
understand what you are saying, but I think you
> and I just
interpreted
> Hugh's
> > second-paragraph question
differently.
> >
> > Oh, I don't know that there was ever
a buoy
> marking the Lake Pontchartrain
>
> > parish
quadripoint. If there was, I seriously
> doubt that it's
there
> anymore.
> >
> > Lowell G. McManus
>
> Leesville, Louisiana, USA
> >
> >
> >
----- Original Message -----
> > From: "aletheia kallos"
<aletheiak@y...>
> > To:
<boundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December
06, 2005 2:35 PM
> > Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re: special
congrats
> may be in order for
> czdepl
> >
improvement
> >
> >
> > > lowell
>
> > you may well know better about louisiana & or in
> >
> general & i hope you do
> > > but the difficulty with
your florida example &
> perhaps
> > > all of these
you mention
> > > since the question rightly asks & the bill
you
> were
> > > trying to fit is for more precision
rather than
> just
> > > more officialness
> >
> is that the available geocoordinates are neither
> > >
officially legal nor precise enough to be more
> useful
> >
> than say the actual physical landform
> indications we
>
> > have at czdepl
> > > or than any other geopositional
guesses for that
> > > matter i suppose
> >
>
> > > here for example
> > >
>
http://www.fgdl.org/metadata/fgdc_html/cntbnd.fgdc.htm
>
> > you could probably find at least some
>
quasiofficial
> > > version of your & our dear
glhemaokpa
> quintipoint
> > > down to a best guessed
square foot i believe
> > > & despite the disclaimer 2
clicks down that says
> > > the data included in this
application are based
> on
> > > interpretation of
available info & shouldnt be
> > > construed as legally
binding
> > > you might still have wanted to conclude you
had
> > > arrived at something on the order of the
correct
> > > square foot
> > > which would be great
since thats about the size
> of the
> > > window you would
need to stand in
> > > for a class b try
> > > but
of course it is spurious or haphazard
> accuracy in
> > >
their case & they pretty well admit it
> > > while what we
are looking for is both full
> > > authenticity & as much
real accuracy as possible
> > >
> > > & if you
go to the ruling bible in this case
> > > for the legal
descriptions on which their
> guesses are
> > > evidently
based
> > > http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?
>
App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0007/ch0007.htm
> > > looking
under glades hendry martin okeechobee &
> palm
> > >
beach
> > > you find it is just an indefinite definition &
a
> > > purely hypothetical public land corner that the
>
> > quasiofficial guess is based on
> > >
> >
>
> > > & bill & i realized this too btw at the
time
> when we
> > > visited circa 2000
> > >
but we based our try on the geocoords we were
> able to
> >
> lovingly pull off the paper usgs topo
> > > which was a
similarly quasiofficial & similarly
> > > quasireliable
source
> > > we knew full well
> > > but again it
was all we had to go on at the time
> > > & certainly good
enough because this was in the
> days
> > > of selective
availability
> > > & even the 2 gps receivers we had on
board
> werent
> > > enough to be absolutely sure we had
the correct
> > > integral degminsec or 100 foot square
>
> >
> > > so when we crossed our fingers & dropped
our
> buoy
> > > there
> > > it was not only
the state of play for glhemaokpa
> at
> > > the time but
the state of the art for civilian
> > > multipoint buoy
emplacement in general i think
> > > & no matter that our
buoy cable had another 20
> feet of
> > > play in it
too
> > > nor that it was probably too frail to survive
>
the next
> > > cold front
> > > let alone a
hurricane
> > >
> > > & perhaps if we went back
today with 2 gpsrs & a
> fresh
> > > buoy & cable
& cinderblock
> > > we could hit the likeliest 10 foot
square
> > > thanx just to the loss of selective
availability
> > > but i think based on the above data we could
not
> at
> > > all yet hit the correct or even the
likeliest
> square
> > > foot
> > >
>
> >
> > > nyonqc is a whole nother matter
> >
> but the end result looks pretty much the same
> from
> >
> here
> > >
> > > in fact after years of
research & a personal
> visit try
> > > there
too
> > > i have still not yet able to confirm that the
>
turning
> > > point number 1 shown here
> > > http://topozone.com/map.asp?
>
z=18&n=4983683&e=525991&s=50&size=l&u=6&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25
>
> > & geopositioned here
>
=== message truncated
===
__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL Something to
write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com