still running out of the house but at this point i have far more confidence in your official
canadian caus & nyonqc depictions than any other
both of the usgs topos at topozone disagree with it re both nyonqc & the first wet leg of
caus west of st regis
but i now think the americans & the mohawks are both very likely mistaken about both
& the canadian map very likely correct about both
& the usgs is not even the right quasiauthority for this essentially internal canadian
question anyway
so i figure whats so unfortunate or relevant about that
& say lets just stay happy & go lucky & measure & compute for the 10 foot nyonqc window
from ibs & canadian data alone
since i dont think there really is anything better than what you have already brought
except perhaps more detailed & more authoritative canadian government data
such as a still better map or preferably the statutorially designated geolocation
beeps
--- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Hugh Wallis" <hugh@o...> wrote:
>
> Unfortunately I have been unable to obtain the relevant USGS quad from
> http://datagateway.nrcs.usda.gov since o44074h6 is cut off at 45 deg N (see
> attached) which is just south of this point and there is no map available
> from that source immediately north of that. If anyone knows where I could
> obtain the missing bit I would be grateful. I will continue to search
> meanwhile.
>
>
> _____
>
> From: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of aletheia kallos
> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 9:45 AM
> To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [BoundaryPoint] nyonqc location was Re: special congrats may be
> in order for czdepl improvement
>
>
> agreed that skepticism is always a good idea
> & i can add from some experience
> especially so for this nyonqc baby
>
> & for indian & third world mapping in general of
> course too
>
> so please dont put too fine a point on my previous
> best guess of
> a couple hundred meters toward the right bank etc
>
> &
> thanx to this your still more reliable looking but
> essentially identical map
> which goes at least partway to the more authoritative
> data i had been looking for
> it seems pretty likely now from their matching
> depictions of the onqc turnpoints & particularly their
> matching slight overextension of onqc beyond nyonqc
> into the usa
> that my maps were at least partly copied or generated
> from yours
> or rather lets say from the same master as yours by &
> large
>
> but i am still following your advice & being skeptical
> & just as skeptical of yours as of mine
> because of the glaringly mistaken caus jog yours takes
> southwest from marker 774
> rather than cutting this directly nw from the 45degree
> sector terminal & transition point
> aka the lost ellicott rock
> to turnpoint 1 properly so called
> as we know it should from the ibc coords for the
> markers & turnpoints
> & downtown personal experience
>
>
> which btw makes it totally impossible to take
> advantage of the improvement your official canadian
> mapping represents for purposes of refining this guess
>
> up to say 300 meters or 100 yards
> hahahahaha
> which nevertheless i now emphatically do anyway
> hahahaha
> after having combined & crunched all the data we have
> so far developed
> but relying especially & most emphatically in this
> case on indian mapping
> hahahaha
> rather than the luxuries of either canadian first
> world or american second world mapping
> hahahhahahaha
> hahahahahahaha
> ahhhhhhh
>
> & in fact i would even like to wheedle that up to
> roughly 302 meters now
> back toward the ellicott rock
> from the 10 foot square window represented by
> turnpoint 1
> with tears rolling down my cheeks
> because after synthesizing as much presumptive
> accuracy as possible from all 3 worlds
> thats exactly where i land
>
> & i both trust it & am skeptical of it to that extent
>
> & since we know the geocoords of the ellicott rock &
> turnpoint 1 in degminsecdec
> i think you might even be able to coax my position out
> of your gps calculator faster than i can get it
> manually with pencil & paper after reinventing or
> supplying the necessary spherical trig
> which i will now proceed to do
> but i am posting this now without delay in case you or
> anyone else who has been following this would like to
> join the chase & the race to presumptive caus2nyonqc
> at 10 foot range
>
>
> & i would also appreciate the backup of the
> computational doublecheck
> even if you dont race but only chase
>
> --- Hugh Wallis <hugh@o...> wrote:
>
> > I would be very sceptical of placing much/any
> > reliance on that map for
> > detailed and highly precise navigation purposes.
> > There is no evidence that
> > it is the output of proper surveying or reference to
> > official
> > documents/treaties etc., and I would suggest that
> > there is significant
> > cartographic production latitude employed to make it
> > look nice and pretty
> > (and perfectly useful for most purposes).
> >
> > I don't have the USGS quad for that area (but will
> > get it shortly) but
> > attached is the relevant section from the Canadian
> > Government 1:50000 topo
> > for reference.
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com]
> > On Behalf Of aletheiak
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 3:44 AM
> > To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [BoundaryPoint] nyonqc location was Re:
> > special congrats may be in
> > order for czdepl improvement
> >
> >
> > agreed & no biggie in any case
> > but a really interesting upshot of all this is the
> > following pair of more
> > detailed & reliable
> > looking maps of nyonqc than i have ever seen before
> > http://www.akwesasne.ca/AkwesasneMap.pdf
> > evidently confirming that its location is indeed not
> > at ibc turnpoint 1
> > as the usgs topos & many other maps show
> > but at some other also probably geodetically
> > specified point or window
> > a couple hundred meters closer to the right bank
> > from there
> > & possibly even legally specified as being in the
> > middle of the seaway
> > channel cut
> > for thats what it at least looks like
> >
> > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Lowell G.
> > McManus"
> > <mcmanus71496@m...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike D.,
> > >
> > > I understand what you are saying, but I think you
> > and I just interpreted
> > Hugh's
> > > second-paragraph question differently.
> > >
> > > Oh, I don't know that there was ever a buoy
> > marking the Lake Pontchartrain
> >
> > > parish quadripoint. If there was, I seriously
> > doubt that it's there
> > anymore.
> > >
> > > Lowell G. McManus
> > > Leesville, Louisiana, USA
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "aletheia kallos" <aletheiak@y...>
> > > To: <boundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 2:35 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re: special congrats
> > may be in order for
> > czdepl
> > > improvement
> > >
> > >
> > > > lowell
> > > > you may well know better about louisiana & or in
> > > > general & i hope you do
> > > > but the difficulty with your florida example &
> > perhaps
> > > > all of these you mention
> > > > since the question rightly asks & the bill you
> > were
> > > > trying to fit is for more precision rather than
> > just
> > > > more officialness
> > > > is that the available geocoordinates are neither
> > > > officially legal nor precise enough to be more
> > useful
> > > > than say the actual physical landform
> > indications we
> > > > have at czdepl
> > > > or than any other geopositional guesses for that
> > > > matter i suppose
> > > >
> > > > here for example
> > > >
> >
> http://www.fgdl.org/metadata/fgdc_html/cntbnd.fgdc.htm
> > > > you could probably find at least some
> > quasiofficial
> > > > version of your & our dear glhemaokpa
> > quintipoint
> > > > down to a best guessed square foot i believe
> > > > & despite the disclaimer 2 clicks down that says
> > > > the data included in this application are based
> > on
> > > > interpretation of available info & shouldnt be
> > > > construed as legally binding
> > > > you might still have wanted to conclude you had
> > > > arrived at something on the order of the correct
> > > > square foot
> > > > which would be great since thats about the size
> > of the
> > > > window you would need to stand in
> > > > for a class b try
> > > > but of course it is spurious or haphazard
> > accuracy in
> > > > their case & they pretty well admit it
> > > > while what we are looking for is both full
> > > > authenticity & as much real accuracy as possible
> > > >
> > > > & if you go to the ruling bible in this case
> > > > for the legal descriptions on which their
> > guesses are
> > > > evidently based
> > > > http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?
> > App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0007/ch0007.htm
> > > > looking under glades hendry martin okeechobee &
> > palm
> > > > beach
> > > > you find it is just an indefinite definition & a
> > > > purely hypothetical public land corner that the
> > > > quasiofficial guess is based on
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > & bill & i realized this too btw at the time
> > when we
> > > > visited circa 2000
> > > > but we based our try on the geocoords we were
> > able to
> > > > lovingly pull off the paper usgs topo
> > > > which was a similarly quasiofficial & similarly
> > > > quasireliable source
> > > > we knew full well
> > > > but again it was all we had to go on at the time
> > > > & certainly good enough because this was in the
> > days
> > > > of selective availability
> > > > & even the 2 gps receivers we had on board
> > werent
> > > > enough to be absolutely sure we had the correct
> > > > integral degminsec or 100 foot square
> > > >
> > > > so when we crossed our fingers & dropped our
> > buoy
> > > > there
> > > > it was not only the state of play for glhemaokpa
> > at
> > > > the time but the state of the art for civilian
> > > > multipoint buoy emplacement in general i think
> > > > & no matter that our buoy cable had another 20
> > feet of
> > > > play in it too
> > > > nor that it was probably too frail to survive
> > the next
> > > > cold front
> > > > let alone a hurricane
> > > >
> > > > & perhaps if we went back today with 2 gpsrs & a
> > fresh
> > > > buoy & cable & cinderblock
> > > > we could hit the likeliest 10 foot square
> > > > thanx just to the loss of selective availability
> > > > but i think based on the above data we could not
> > at
> > > > all yet hit the correct or even the likeliest
> > square
> > > > foot
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > nyonqc is a whole nother matter
> > > > but the end result looks pretty much the same
> > from
> > > > here
> > > >
> > > > in fact after years of research & a personal
> > visit try
> > > > there too
> > > > i have still not yet able to confirm that the
> > turning
> > > > point number 1 shown here
> > > > http://topozone.com/map.asp?
> >
> z=18&n=4983683&e=525991&s=50&size=l&u=6&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25
> > > > & geopositioned here
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________
> Yahoo! DSL - Something to write home about.
> Just $16.99/mo. or less.
> dsl.yahoo.com
>
>
>
> _____
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>
> * Visit your group "BoundaryPoint
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BoundaryPoint> " on the web.
>
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> BoundaryPoint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:BoundaryPoint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
> _____
>