Subject: Re: search for germany benelux river condos advances
Date: Apr 16, 2001 @ 20:24
Author: peter.smaardijk@and.com (peter.smaardijk@...)
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Hi again,

For all of you wondering where I was last week: I was enjoying a
short holiday. And photographs I have made, too. Let's hope they've
turned out well, because I have made some you all would like to see.
But I'm not going to give anything away yet, though... I dread the
moment I get a message from the photo lab that they have lost my
pictures.

One thing I will tell you though: I have visited bedelu. Looked at it
from all angles. And the possible condominium is tiny. I mean TINY.
Basically, it is a concrete dam, dividing the channel up to the ship
lock and the one leading from the weir. On the western side of it
there is a small strip of something which would in dry times probably
be some land, but was nothing but some trees standing in the water
the time I was visiting (about four days ago). Yes, I photographed
the spot.

--- In BoundaryPoint@y..., michael donner <m@d...> wrote:
> still working in the dark for lack of an 1815 treaty of vienna text
> & still clueless also about any later international agreements that
could
> have affected the river condo or condos originally created then
>
> but a lucky catch at
> http://www.luxembourg.co.uk/fish_border.html
> makes the delu river condo on the moselle at schengen aka defrlu
> which several members have already pointed out with pix & maps
> seem likely to continue northward
> first all the way down the moselle to wasserbillig
> & from there all the way up the tributary river sauer to wallendorf
> & finally all the way up its tributary river the our to bedelu
> except in this last case for a very short stretch around vianden
where the
> delu boundary leaves the river our
>
> this single detour breaks the possible river condo territory into
two
> separate pieces
> & may produce a pair of riparian condo tripoints in the process
> one just southeast & the other just north of vianden
>
> these newly noticed possibilities
> added to the earlier observation of a condo & tricountry line at
defrlu
> rather than an ordinary tri country point
> & the pursuant supposition of a similar condo area & triline at
bedelu
> complete in prospect now the condominial & punctological survey of
delu
>
> also tho only in passing
> & just to promote all the tri country points of luxembourg
equally
> the locatienet zoomable map seems to indicate befrlu is high & dry
> rather than riverine as previously thought
>
>
>
> but proceeding generally northward from luxembourg
> to reexamine the bede boundary also for any sign of river condos
> the multimap zoomable site indicates bede leaves the river our
> just as delu did at vianden
> but not only once in this case
> at the point previously noticed 700 meters above bedelu
> but also after another brief reunion a few km farther upstream
> & thus it too may produce 2 distinct areas of bede river condo
> & with them
> besides the triline already observed at bedelu
> & its companion riparian condo tripoint previously deduced
> a pair of newly guessed riparian tripoints at the ends of the upper
condo
> all of which together likewise prospectively complete the
condominial &
> punctological survey of bede
>
>
> & finally reaching holland
> a search of the denl was not as productive as the delu & bede
boundaries
> turning up only 1 potential river condo within the formerly
prussian sector
> namely along a short reach of the rhine
>
> but the only maps found so far all depict this as a midriver
boundary
> & moreover the treatment of this area in 1815 or afterwards might
easily
> have differed from the treatment of the moselle & its tributaries
> so a denl condo seems far less likely than any of the above
possibilities
> tho not yet entirely out of the question
>
> a still more dubious hanoverian possibility also exists
> along a river or canal possibly named zijl
> but i mention it only to complete the survey

Although me too, I would be surprised to find the denl boundary
waters to be condominia, I can say that there are much more of these.
The most important one is, indeed, the river Rhine. The river you
mention I think is the Westerwoldsche Aa, which flows into the
Dollard sea branch at a hamlet called Nieuwe Statenzijl. The boundary
runs along the eastern bank between boundary stone 197-I (north of
Nieuweschans) and boundary stone 202-I (I think, but I can't make it
out precisely on my 1:50k map, it could be 202-II or -III, too) just
south of Nieuwe Statenzijl. There it leaves the bank and goes dry and
eastwards. The northernmost boundary stone of denl is 203-II. I
happen to have made a picture of it one and a half year ago. It is
very unimposing: a very low stone on top of the dike, just behind a
fence (that prevents Dutch sheep from wandering off to German soil,
just as well in these foot & mouth infected times).
>
>
>
> thus in summary
> leaving aside the 2 unlikely denl condos & their 4 unlikely
tripoints
> there are a total of 2 likely delu & 2 likely bede condos
> along with their associated 2 likely trilines at defrlu & bedelu
> each of these spanning an unmatched pair of bookend tripoints
> plus a total of 5 likely simple condo tripoints separate from the
trilines
>
>
> treaty texts &or better maps are the indispensable next steps
> if further progress is to be made here
>
> m


Peter S.