>
>In short: claves should always be surrounded by dry land.
wow
i wasnt expecting this conclusion either
evidently you dont want to consider campione
or the malawi mozambique pair
or any of the spanish moroccan bunch
as either true enclaves or true exclaves
but that could be a result of the dutch etymology you mention below
which seems entirely different from the french lock & key image
so no wonder we dont entirely agree
which after all is fine too
i see also that everyone is coming at this from a different pet interest
so all the more reason to differ
but just so you know
tho i enjoy it all
my own greatest motivation is to dig up the tripoint gold that will be
found deposited along the boundaries only of nonenclavic exclaves
so that distinction at least is most important to me
m
>
>We might
>expand this notion, and include territorial waters as well (inland
>waters (like rivers) are already included in the notion 'dry land').
>I would feel for it to do that. But no further. Territorial waters
>are just the same as dry territory, except for one thing as Martin
>pointed out: 'innocent passage' of ships. It has to stay innocent,
>though. If you're up to anything nasty, you are going to have to deal
>with the law of the country concerned.....
>B.t.w.: I just looked up the words 'enclave' and 'exclave' in a Dutch
>dictionary, and in both cases the word 'grondgebied' (meaning
>territory, but litterally 'territory of soil') is the pivotal word in
>the explanation.
>
>Peter S.
>
>--- In BoundaryPoint@y..., michael donner <m@d...> wrote:
>> yes i agree
>> & i see you have also anticipated my hole card point here too
>>
>> the overseas classes
>> both the insular & the continental
>> of so called claves dont at all have the same keyhole feel as the
>normal sort
>> so at least etymologically there has been a slippage & distortion
>here that
>> i would also tend to back away from
>>
>> m
>>
>>
>> >
>> >michael donner wrote:
>> >
>> >> thanxx to peter & especially to martin for the further clave &
>sovereignty
>> >> elucidations
>> >> & i am glad to learn equatorial guinea is truly exclavic
>> >> nicholsons usage of land area to the contrary notwithstanding
>> >>
>> >> but i must say this throws my whole previous understanding
>> >> or i should say misunderstanding
>> >> of maritime tri sovereign points into the drink
>> >> so it is back to the underwater drawing board for me
>> >> & you can probably expect a considerable retrenchment from my
>earlier guess
>> >> of 160 maritime tri country points worldwide
>> >>
>> >> upon further relection also
>> >> i would just like to retreat an extra inch here by adding the
>following
>> >> hopefully final nuance to clave usage
>> >>
>> >> altho saying flatly
>> >> an enclave of any country
>> >> still seems to me to be an abuse of the word of
>> >> nevertheless it is not really an abuse of the word in to say
>> >> llivia is an exclave of spain or a spanish exclave in france
>> >> while i would still prefer to say within france in such cases
>> >>
>> >> but it would still seem to me to be an abuse of the word in to
>say
>> >> llivia is an exclave in france
>> >> without first identifying it as an exclave of spain or a
>spanish exclave
>> >>
>> >> otherwise i wouldnt want to budge from the positions outlined
>below
>> >>
>> >> m
>> >
>> >I wonder if you can call Eq. Guinea exclavic. Is the island
>completely
>> >detached from the continental
>> >part? I would say not, because in order to go from the one to the
>other,
>> >you go through 1. Eq.
>> >Guinean terr. waters, 2. international waters (thus belonging to
>everyone,
>> >including Eq. Guinea), 3.
>> >Eq. Guinean terr. waters once more. I think if international
>waters are in
>> >the way, there is usually
>> >less reason to call something an enclave.
>> >
>> >Peter S.