Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re: American State Boundaries
Date: Apr 16, 2003 @ 23:12
Author: Michael Kaufman (Michael Kaufman <mikekaufman79@...>)
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> On Wednesday 16 April 2003 06:20 pm, you wrote:__________________________________________________
> Why would the center of a river be any smoother than
> banks from which it is
> equidistant? And molecules, grains of sand,
> boulders, and great bends are all
> features that determine the edge of a river, hence
> its length. For some
> discussions it might be OK to ignore features below
> a certain size, but we
> are specifically discussing the length of the
> boundary, which is dependent on
> the scale of objects we consider.
> BJB
>
> > The center of a river is about as smooth as you
> can get.
> >
> > Why would you measure a boundary line around a
> grain of sand?
> > Theoretically, this discussion could get into such
> things, but practically,
> > the line would go right across the top of that
> grain, or boulder, or rock,
> > not around it.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Brian J. Butler
> [mailto:bjbutler@...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 3:44 PM
> > To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re: American State
> Boundaries
> >
> >
> > On Wednesday 16 April 2003 05:12 pm, you wrote:
> > You are not on the right wavelength yet. The
> natural boundaries you
> > enumerated are not smooth curves that can be
> measured in the traditional
> > sense. I agree that you can determine a minimum
> length of these boundaries
> > by interpolating between fixed points on the
> boundary. But the true length
> > of the boundary depends on how small your samples
> are. For example, you
> > would have a longer measurement if you measured
> around each rock along the
> > riverbank, or each grain of sand. So you are
> doubly correct - your
> > estimate
> >
> > could be off by a great margin, an infinite margin
> perhaps, and the minimum
> > length of the OK-TX boundary is longer than the
> CA-NV boundary. I don't
> > think you can make the statement that the OK-TX
> boundary is longer than the
> > VA-WV boundary, though, for example, because it
> depends on how irregular
> > the
> >
> > boundaries are and how carefully you measure them.
> >
> > BJB
> >
> > > Well, *anything* has a length depending on how
> you measure it. But most
> > > US state boundaries have specific definitions
> that are actual places on
> > > the ground, whether it's mean highwater, center
> of channel. top of the
> > > ridge, etc. E.g., the Kentucky boundary along
> the Ohio River is the
> > > waterline on the northern bank, so KY controls
> the river. The definition
> > > IIRC was fixed in time so that it doesn't change
> as the Ohio rises or
> > > falls or carves new segments of the channel.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I am still curious if there is a place
> to ascertain the actual
> > > length of the OK-TX boundary? I estikated it as
> somewhere around 800
> >
> > miles,
> >
> > > while CA-NV was just over 600 miles. My
> estimates could be off by a great
> > > margin, but I don't think they are off so much
> as to change the ranking.
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Brian J. Butler
> [mailto:bjbutler@...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 12:12 PM
> > > To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re: American State
> Boundaries
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wednesday 16 April 2003 01:18 pm, you wrote:
> > > A natural boundary, such as a river, has a
> length that depends on how
> > > closely
> > > you measure it.
> > > BJB
> > >
> > > > But CA-NV wouldn't be the longest border
> between two states, straight
> > > > or not. The OK-TX border for a good distance
> is the meandering Red
> > > > River. There's no basis to say that doesn't
> count as distance and that
> > > > one should draw an imaginary "straight" line
> instead to cut the
> > > > corners. The boundary is the boundary line
> itself.
> > > >
> > > > What is the length of the CA-NV boundary and
> the OK-TX boundary?
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Brian J. Butler
> [mailto:bjbutler@...]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 9:39 AM
> > > > To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re: American
> State Boundaries
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wednesday 16 April 2003 11:19 am, you
> wrote:
> > > > CANV is certainly the straight-line champ. If
> we "go fractal" maybe
> > > > ID-MT, OK-TX, or even VA-WV would take the
> cake.
> > > > BJB
> > > >
> > > > > nice question & nice answer
> > > > >
> > > > > how about canv for longest
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, Brian
> J. Butler
> > > > >
> > > > > <bjbutler@b...> wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday 16 April 2003 09:50 am, you
> wrote:
> > > > > > The shortest is easy - at AZ-CO-NM-UT
> there are two pairs of
> > > > >
> > > > > states that meet
> > > > >
> > > > > > at a point.
> > > > > > BJB
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Which state shares the longest border
> with another state?
> > > > >
> > > > > (The border
> > > > >
> > > > > > > does not have to be continuous.) Which
> state shares the
> > > > >
> > > > > shortest?
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > >
> > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Brian J. Butler
> > > > > > BJB Software, Inc.
> > > > > > 508-429-1441
> > > > > > bjbutler@b...
> > > > > > http://www.bjbsoftware.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> --
> Brian J. Butler
> BJB Software, Inc.
> 508-429-1441
> bjbutler@...
> http://www.bjbsoftware.com
>