http://www.mrsc.org/nxt/gateway.dll?
f=templates&fn=legpage.htm$vid=rcwwac:leg
gives lackadaisical verbal descriptions of the county boundaries
including such ambiguities as the following under kittitas yakima
quote
runs along the main channel of the naches river to the summit of the
cascade mountains
or to the eastern boundary of king county
endquote
oops
& so as is typical when a restatement is added for clarification
new obscurities arise
a perfect fudge job as predicted
m
--- In BoundaryPoint@y..., "acroorca2002" <orc@o...> wrote:
> thanx david
> this has certainly been a fantastic thread
>
> as i indicated below
> the legal wording wont prove the fiat quadripoint pudding but might
> fudge it into a satisfactory degree of normalcy
> & thus might well coincide with what you are wanting to see here
>
> oregon & florida have the county boundaries in state statutes but
some
> states have them in their constitution too
>
> m
>
> --- In BoundaryPoint@y..., David Mark <dmark@g...> wrote:
> > Michael, good point to note that course lines are not identical to
> > thalwegs. But surely, the proof of this pudding in this case
would
> lie in
> > the exact wording of the legal descriptions of the various county
> > boundaries, and in particular the definition of the Yakima-
Kittitas
> line
> > about the head of its creek, and the King-Pierce line above the
head
> of
> > its creek. Any idea on where to get legal descriptions of the
> boundaries
> > of the counties of Washington?
> >
> > David
> >
> > King - Kittitas - Pierce - Yakima
> >
> > On Mon, 15 Apr 2002, acroorca2002 wrote:
> >
> > > great paper david
> > > & i am pleased jacks fantastic discovery here satisfies your
needs
> > >
> > > also i realize you are working from a theoretical basis
> > > & that your modeling is intended to smooth over any rough edges
> > > & indeed it seems to me to be successful for that very reason
> > >
> > > yet from a punctological point of view
> > > a primary thalweg line can only be traced to its true source
> > > experientially
> > > naturally
> > > inch by inch
> > > & in the upstream direction only
> > > & cant simply be declared to fall by extra fiat as it were
> > > defined as a course line now & no longer even a true thalweg
> > > from any particularly convenient point
> > > including even the low point of a saddle
> > > deliciously simplifying & satisfying as that is
> > > because in reality waters are shed from above the saddle as well
> > > & unless you actually perform the sawanabori uphill you can
never
> be
> > > sure you are upon the main stem at any given moment
> > >
> > > from my own observations & tries at doing just this sort of
thing
> > > i believe if we stood at naches pass in a heavy rain we would
even
> be
> > > able to see the trickles that fall in both directions from the
> saddle
> > > there as tributaries to larger trickles that fall from
elsewhere
> on
> > > the transverse ridge
> > >
> > > so you may pronounce your extra fiat that will make this a
perfect
> > > quadripoint
> > > but i still dont see how there is a true natural fiat
quadripoint
> by
> > > your earlier definition
> > > as indeed there might well have been at a mountain peak
> > >
> > > m
> > >
> > > --- In BoundaryPoint@y..., David Mark <dmark@g...> wrote:
> > > > Thanks, Jack, this IS an instance of what I was looking for,
> > > although I
> > > > was imagining 4 ridges coming to a peak, and not two ridges
and
> two
> > > > course lines coming to a saddle.
> > > >
> > > > There is a theory of continuous, smooth surfaces laid our by
> Alred
> > > Cayley
> > > > in 1859, and the famous physicist James Clerk Maxwell in
1870,
> that
> > > shows
> > > > that at any saddle point (such as Naches pass), there in fact
> are
> > > two
> > > > course lines that must emanate from the exact point of the
> saddle,
> > > as well
> > > > as two ridge lines running up to peaks. According to that
theory
> > > this
> > > > should indeed be a perfect quadripoint.
> > > >
> > > > Cayley, A., 1859. On contour lines and slope lines.
> Philosophical
> > > > Magazine, 18, 264-268.
> > > >
> > > > Maxwell, J. C., 1870. On hills and dales. Philosophical
> Magazine,
> > > vol. 40,
> > > > 421-427.
> > > >
> > > > For far more on this topic, see the appropriate section in
> > > >
> > >
>
http://wings.buffalo.edu/philosophy/faculty/smith/articles/topography.
> > > pdf
> > > >
> > > > David
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, acroorca2002 wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > jack
> > > > > apologies
> > > > > as my library computer was shooting blanks that day
> > > > >
> > > > > but i think the message was simply that even if kikipiya
isnt
> a
> > > > > perfect fiat quadripoint there might still be a washington
> statute
> > > > > that makes it a legal quadripoint
> > > > >
> > > > > & probably nobody but us would think of drawing such fine
> > > > > distinctions anyway
> > > > > so lets not write it off yet from our list of true
megapoints
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > also in the unlikely event that it or they are marked
> > > > > i still doubt anyone would think of erecting 2 monuments
> > > > > especially on public land & in such a remote place
> > > > > when even a small marker would probably suffice to
physically
> > > cover
> > > > > both points so close together
> > > > > if they are even distinguishable
> > > > > which they probably arent
> > > > >
> > > > > all in all a pretty ridiculous situation
> > > > > & i am sure glad we discovered it
> > > > >
> > > > > m
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In BoundaryPoint@y..., "Jack Parsell" <jparsell@n...>
> wrote:
> > > > > > Michael,
> > > > > > I agree that it is not highly probable that there is a
> little
> > > pool
> > > > > > of water in the pass with the water having difficulty
> deciding
> > > > > > which way to descend, although I've seen that in the
> > > Adirondacks.
> > > > > > The distance between the 4920 ft. contour lines on each
side
> of
> > > the
> > > > > > pass is less than 200 ft. and the drainages line up
> > > > > cartographically,
> > > > > > but I guess a single precise point is too much to hope
for.
> It
> > > > > looks
> > > > > > like pretty rough terrain with 2000 ft gain in elevation
> from
> > > the
> > > > > > nearest paved road so I don't plan to check it out. It
would
> be
> > > > > > nice to know though.
> > > > > > Jack
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: acroorca2002 [mailto:orc@o...]
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 5:18 PM
> > > > > > To: BoundaryPoint@y...
> > > > > > Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: TopoZone - Washington quad
> county
> > > point
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > jack
> > > > > > i still like this just as much but my nearsightedness had
> missed
> > > > > the
> > > > > > fact that these are 2 opposite watersheds descending from
> that
> > > pass
> > > > > > for i was imagining it was just one river running thru a
gap
> > > > > > oops
> > > > > >
> > > > > > now that you have said this tho
> > > > > > i have to think a purely fiat quadripoint is technically
as
> > > > > unlikely
> > > > > > here as on that mountaintop in france without a little
> fudging
> > > or
> > > > > > coaxing
> > > > > > because it is almost inconceivable that 2 sawanaboris
should
> > > ascend
> > > > > > to meet at a single precise point along a crest line
> > > > > > but they would by their nature produce 2 distinct fiat
> tripoints
> > > > > > however close together
> > > > > > m
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In BoundaryPoint@y..., "Jack Parsell" <jparsell@n...>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > This quad-county point of King - Kittitas - Pierce -
> Yakima
> > > > > > > counties is at N 47 05' 14", W 121 22' 42" at Naches
> Pass at
> > > > > > > about 4920 ft. National Forest Development Rd.#70 from
> Naches
> > > > > > > Pass Campground runs to within a little over a mile
from
> the
> > > > > > > quad-point. The Naches Trail and a jeep road cross the
> pass
> > > and
> > > > > > > the Pacific Crest trail passes about 1/2 mile west. It
> appears
> > > > > > > the King-Kittitas and Pierce-Yakima lines are on a
ridge.
> The
> > > > > > > King-Pierce line is the beginning of Meadow Creek
drainage
> and
> > > > > > > the Kittitas-Yakima line is the beginning of Middle
Fork
> > > Little
> > > > > > > Naches River drainage. Thus it is an intersection of a
> ridge
> > > > > > > line and two drainages all of which are natural
features.
>
> > > > > > > I belive that is what David was looking for.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jack
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >