Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] My visit to Campione d'Italia
Date: Aug 01, 2006 @ 08:29
Author: Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Ernst Stavro Blofeld <blofeld_es@...>)
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This is what the Elfter Anstand says about the
northernmost part of the border:

Das kleine, Valle del Molino di Campio genannte
Flüsschen, bildet di äusserste Grenze gegen Morgen
zwischen dem Gebiet von Campione und der
schweizerischen Gemeinde Castagnola, und zwar auf eine
Strecke von fünfundsechzig Meter von der Mündung
aufwärts; auf dieser Strecke fliesst der Bach ganz auf
italienischem Gebiete, und die wahre Grenze wird durch
das rechte Ufer diese Baches gebildet. In der besagten
Entfernung von fünfundsechzig Meter aufwärts steht
rechts am Bache der Markstein Nr 1.


All those words are roughly equivalent to:

The border is at the right bank of the brook, named
Valle del Molino di Campio, and rock #1 is 56 meters
up river from the mouth. The community on the swiss
side is Castagnola.



Still #1 is obviously in swiss territory, to judge
from Philip de Bruins picture, but only just. Clearly
it has been placed as close as possible to the
bank/border.

If they had followed the scheme from marker #14, then
the incision on top of the rock would have the dimple
offset slightly from the line, in the direction away
from the stream.

Another possiblity is this: Can you see that there is
something that looks like a stone foundation under the
rock? Suppose that this foundation was man made, and
built to allow the rock to align perfectly with the
(natural) right bank? I guess we need a picture
showing more of the vicinity to have an opinion about
that.

I have taken the liberty to put a copy of Philips
pdf-enclosed pictures here:
http://campione.enclaves.org/image/N1.png


The Elfter Anstand goes on:

Von Nr. 1 geht man sechzig Meter weit in gerader
Richtung auf einen Felsen zu, der sich freistehend
über den fortlaufenden Kamm erhebt und la Mitra di St
Ambrogio genannt wird. Auf diesen Felsen wurde die Nr
2 eingehauen. Das anstossende schweizerische Gebiet
von Nr.1 bis 2 sowohl als ferner hin bis zum letzten
Markzeichen (Nr 14) ist immer dasjenige der Gemeinde
Arogno.

Which approximately translates to:

Marker #2 is cut in the face of the freestanding cliff
Mitra di St Ambrogio, sixty meters from #1.
The swiss-side community from Nr 1 up until Nr 14 is
Arogno.

This would imply that #1 is, at least, near the
tripoint if not centered directly on it. No more
information here, alas.

Yours,
M


--- "Lowell G. McManus" <lgm@...> wrote:

> I had wondered how rock 1 could mark the actual
> boundary if it is so
> obviously on the Swiss bank of the brook. Still,
> the rock has "I" on
> one side and "S" on the other, and a dimple with
> lines running each way
> on the top surface. The stone cutter clearly
> intended it to be placed
> on the boundary, but perhaps the surveyors overruled
> him.
>
> Still, somebody needs to see what the Elfter Anstand
> says about the
> placement of rock 1. Could some of our
> German-speaking friends go to
> http://tinyurl.com/qn6e8 and tell us? If not, I'll
> try to translate
> tomorrow. It's too late at night now.
>
> Lowell G. McManus
> Leesville, Louisiana, USA
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "aletheia kallos" <aletheiak@...>
> To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 10:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] My visit to Campione
> d'Italia
>
>
> > again i am flying pdf text blind here so i am
> grateful
> > for all your help
> >
> > but this best available arcalu map
> >
>
http://www.globalgeografia.com/italia/img/campione_mappaconfini1.jpg
> > & this accompanying probably official table of
> > distances
> >
>
http://www.globalgeografia.com/italia/campione_italia_tab1.htm
> > indicate that marker 1 is indeed in the area of
> the
> > tripoint
> > at least in a manner of speaking
> > being no more than about 15 meters removed from it
> > & also that the cliff which marker 1 stands at the
> > bottom of is the right bank or side wall of the
> border
> > brook ravine
> > & also that the flowing water you see & mention
> > directly beside this rock must be the water of
> this
> > arlu & calu & arcalu border brook
> >
> > in fact my understanding is that both rock number
> 0r &
> > rock number 1 are entirely within switzerland
> > being on the right bank of the international
> border
> > brook
> > & that there is not really a literally italian
> side of
> > marker 1
> > but only a side that at best faces toward italy &
> > toward marker 2
> > thru the midstream tripoint
> >
> > it is notable also that marker 1 on the right bank
> is
> > described as being only 222cm from a boulder on
> the
> > left bank that is inscribed with an old cross
> > which i gather lies much more nearly straight
> across
> > the brook from marker 1 than does the chit
> alignment
> > which angles sharply upstream toward the tripoint
> >
> > & i can well understand how marker 2 is quite
> remote
> > from the tripoint
> > being about 50 meters away & much higher too
> according
> > to this map
> >
> > but your message has at least convinced me that
> tho
> > the first pdf pic may show the correct brook
> > still it couldnt possibly show the correct
> location of
> > the tripoint
>
>


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