Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Green Island / Ile Verte (St.Pierre-Miquelon NFLD) cafr
Date: Jul 12, 2006 @ 20:37
Author: aletheia kallos (aletheia kallos <aletheiak@...>)
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> That's correct. You are right, there is no boundaryyes & i realize this is silly but the one that
> 'shore' at all,
> but only a shore point (actually : 2 points, once on
> each of the
> mentionned rocks: Enfant Perdu de l'Ile Verte and
> the other one that
> has no name) that is a boundary point. And the rest
> of
> the 'shoreline' on each of these 2 rocks is not
> boundary.
> > i also believe that the 3 segments of maritimeok
> > boundary that are defined by your 2 special
> wet&dry
> > points may very well cross dry land adjacent to
> those
> > points especially at low tide
>
> I am not sure about this, if I consider Romain's
> chart on
> http://us.geocities.com/romain_hodapp/Ile-verte.html
> I do not see other rocks crossed nor touched by the
> sea boundary
> line in that area, taking into account the
> description of the
> location of the turning points - I mean: the red
> line Romain draw.
> Obviously, this IGN chart he used does not give theyes i wish we could somehow inspire our resident
> boundary, so
> there is still no confirmation of any line, only
> suggestions.
>
> > but probably even at high tide a tiny bit too
> > in between & touching these 2 special points
>
> CHS chart 4490 would certainly give us a clue
> regarding this
> hypothetis. Since I am not anymore in North America,
> I have more
> difficulties to find it, here in Europe.
> The French Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Paris hascould you visit them in paris for the thrill of just
> answered me they
> have a chart with their 1972 agreement copy, but the
> chart is said
> to be 'too big to be copied'... :(
> > i believe the nationality of the rocks & theyes i agree
> islands
> > alike are determined by which side of the maritime
> > boundary they happen to fall on
>
> So we have two possibilities, is that right?
> 1. The Sea Boundary, as described by the 1972
> agreement, determines
> the sovereignty of the national waters and also
> determines the
> soveignty of the rocks, that have the nationality of
> the waters in
> which they are included.
> 2. The Sea Boundary, as described in this 1972
> agreement, does only
> determines the sovereignty of the national waters,
> but does not
> determines any land sovereignty - it is a Sea
> boundary line, not a
> land one - so the question of the sovereignty of the
> islands is not
> determined, and some can be French (what I do not
> believe).
>
> Personally, I would assume possibility #1 is the
> correct hypothesis,
> I do not think possibility #2 is accurated, but
> might be wrong.
> In the utopistic case of point #2, could we imaginestill you are quite right to question this
> Green Island (or
> other islands)'s land is divided between France and
> Canada [Let's
> say Green Island was, as the custom said, divided in
> the past -
> although no official and international text has
> never said it was,
> or was not, until 1972. Does the 1972 agreement say
> it is now
> Canadian in its whole? the agreement talked about
> national 'waters'
> and fisheries only], while being entirely within
> Canadian waters? -
> although I do not believe it is the case here.
> In addition, I do not know if anywhere else aroundnot sure but likoma & chisumulu may be the only ones
> the world there
> are islands under one rule located in the national
> waters of another
> countries. Do you know if there are some?
> It is not similar, but as you might know, until ai would be more surprised if it divided them than if
> precise date when
> they did renounce to their right, some French
> municipalities
> strangely still had some borough islands and
> 'mainland' parts
> located on the other side of the Rhine river, i.e.
> in German Grand-
> duchy of Baden. These French villages had thus lands
> located not on
> the French side, but on the foreign side. This was
> due to the fact
> the Rhine river used to often move in the old days.
>
> > but since it is only a sea boundary i am not sure
> it
> > would divide or allocate those rocks so much as
> ignore
> > them
>
> Right. That's still the question: shouldn't a sea
> boundary only
> divide waters, not lands?
> > > 7. I have seen, in Canada, another map, about=== message truncated ===
> > > 1:25000 scale and a
> > > Canadian-made chart, giving the boundary line.
> > > However, this map was
> > > not as efficient as the French IGN 1:25000
> chart, as
> > > the French
> > > chart shows all the rocks (although not showing
> the
> > > boundary line)
> > > while this Canadian map show the line but only
> two
> > > [!] islands for
> > > Little Green Island group. So OK, all the
> islands
>