nicely done hugh
& good to at least have their names correct now too
& especially to have no regret about doubling back for
a retry or even several retries if necessary
since they are usually that much more rewarding for
the sweat equity previously invested in them
&
it seems pretty likely now that if you take the
prevailing consensus of all these old & new generally
corroborative as well as now probably somewhat
improved data
& if you at least temporarily ignore any odd blips
that seem way out of line with the best available
consensus
then you ought to be able to home in on the true
tripoint in both of these cases very effectively
which is to say
close enough to catch sight of the official markers we
have good reason to expect them to have

--- Hugh Wallis <hugh@...> wrote:

> Revisiting these two Spanish tripoints from the
> comfort of my computer and
> the internet I have a lot more information to share
> now. Regrettably this
> means that I am now convinced that NEITHER of my two
> "finds" last September
> were actually of tripoints. :(
>
> Lets take the northern one first - notably
> es2arlona. (The "comunidades
> autónomas " of Aragón, La Rioja and Navarra - see
> http://www.statoids.com/ues.html )
>
> I have found the following evidence that makes it
> quite clear that the
> actual tripoint is, indeed, some distance to the
> north west of the road
> where I had stopped and taken the pictures that are
> at
> http://tinyurl.com/baglc, including ones of the
> supposed tripoint "mojón"
> which is obviously in the wrong place.
>
> First I have found various topographical maps
> published by various agencies
> as follows:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/78xsz
> <http://tinyurl.com/c8kvm/SCR-008.jpg> is an
> extract from a 1:25000 topo map apparently published
> by a national agency
> http://tinyurl.com/dhucl is effectively the same map
> but published by the
> government of La Rioja
> http://tinyurl.com/dp73d is from a 1:50000 topo map
>
> Now I have also found a wonderful site from the
> Spanish Ministry of
> Agriculture that has very detailed land division
> information superimposed on
> aerial photographs - this is at
>

http://www.mapa.es/es/sig/pags/sigpac/intro.htm#inicio

> and leads you to
> various sites for each of the autonomous communities
> in Spain, some of which
> have better information than others.
>
> First looking at the info from Navarra
> (http://sigpac.tracasa.es/navegar/)
> we can see in http://tinyurl.com/c8w8y the boundary
> of Navarra superimposed
> on a photo from 2003. In http://tinyurl.com/7zvv6 we
> have the same
> information on a photo from earlier (interesting to
> note the change in
> vegetation around the area of the tripoint during
> this interim period). It
> is also very interesting to note that the boundaries
> do not appear to be as
> straight as marked on the topo maps but tend to jog
> around quite a lot.
>
> Comparing this with the info from Aragón
> (http://sigpac1.aragob.es/visor/)
> in picture http://tinyurl.com/bxy3e we start to get
> a hint of a possible
> exact location of the tripoint (maybe at the pointy
> bit just northwest of
> the abandoned railway track?).
>
> However, adding in the info from La Rioja
> (http://sigpac.larioja.org/visor/)
> in picture http://tinyurl.com/7tuxr things get a bit
> confusing because if
> you now compare all three images you see that the
> little triangle shown on
> the Aragón picture crossing the railway overlaps
> with the land apparently
> claimed by Navarra thus raising the possibility that
> the actual tripoint is
> just south of the railway.
>
> So another visit is most definitely called for - I
> hope to get back there in
> early May next year when I have another possible
> visit to Spain in the
> works.
>
> Now - turning our attention a few km down the road
> to es2arcllo (Aragón,
> Castilla-León, La Rioja) which I had thought I had
> found at the roadside:
>
> Looking at topo map http://tinyurl.com/brcqh
> (1:50000) it appears that the
> tripoint is not by the roadside at all but some
> distance to the east. This
> would explain the fact that there were only two
> readable province names on
> the marker I found at the roadside and why they were
> apparently
> inconsistently placed for marking a tripoint (I was
> led astray by the fact
> that this was a triangular cross section marker)
>
> To confirm this lets look at some aerial photos:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/caqdw
> <http://tinyurl.com/c8kvm/SCR-012.jpg> is from La
> Rioja (unfortunately there is no actual photo at the
> probable tripoint
> although boundaries are shown) and
> http://tinyurl.com/7zys7 is from Aragón
> and http://tinyurl.com/933th from Castilla-León.
> These three photos tend
> confirm the information from the topo map and appear
> consistent and indicate
> that the tripoint is approximately where the track
> starts to turn towards
> the south on the right of the pictures. Once more it
> appears that the actual
> borders are a lot more "wiggly" than shown on the
> topo maps. So, again,
> another visit is called for here.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of aletheia kallos
> Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 8:46 AM
> To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [BoundaryPoint] RE: [borderpoint] Re:
> Spanish provincial
> tripoint marker... or not
>
>
> --- Hugh Wallis <hugh@...> wrote:
>
> > I think you just said the same as what I said when
> I
> > said "When I reached
> > the appropriate spot on the road I searched around
> > for any kind of marker
> > some distance either side of the road but was
> unable
> > to locate one. What I
> > did locate was all on the road itself. From these
> > conflicting pieces of
> > evidence it is is not possible, therefore, to
> > determine accurately exactly
> > where the tripoint is located."
>
> whoops
> misunderstanding in process
> for i didnt mean some distance in either direction
> generally
> but rather
> specifically
> in accordance with this best available map
>

http://www.larioja.org/sig/imagenes/5000/25tp2927.gif

> unless i am misreading it or misinterpreting some of
> the other data
> between 110 & 137 meters up the bank & thru those
> lovely woods
> on a bearing somewhere between n13w & n39w from the
> roadstone
>
> or
> averaging these ranges for starters & ease &
> simplicity
> make that about 124 meters bearing about n26w from
> the
> roadstone
> & only then fanning out & beating the bushes if
> necessary for 15 or 20 meters in all directions
>
> alternatively
> get a gps fix on the target point directly from this
> map if possible
> but i think you might still have to beat the bushes
> in
> that case too
> so there might not be any advantage to doing it that
> way
>
> nor do i think it would just be a matter of luck but
> of technique first & perhaps then luck too
>
>
> but in any case you fully deserve our highest
> congrats
> & thanx for having made this try at es2arcllo &
> posting this beautiful report
> which was the first known one of its kind in &
> indeed
>

=== message truncated ===

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