I would be very sceptical of placing much/any reliance on
that map for detailed and highly precise navigation purposes. There is no
evidence that it is the output of proper surveying or reference to official
documents/treaties etc., and I would suggest that there is significant
cartographic production latitude employed to make it look nice and pretty (and
perfectly useful for most purposes).
I don't have the USGS quad for that area (but will get it
shortly) but attached is the relevant section from the Canadian
Government 1:50000 topo for reference.
agreed & no biggie in any case
but a really interesting
upshot of all this is the following pair of more detailed & reliable
looking maps of nyonqc than i have ever seen before
http://www.akwesasne.ca/AkwesasneMap.pdf
evidently
confirming that its location is indeed not at ibc turnpoint 1
as the usgs
topos & many other maps show
but at some other also probably
geodetically specified point or window
a couple hundred meters closer to
the right bank from there
& possibly even legally specified as being
in the middle of the seaway channel cut
for thats what it at least looks
like
--- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Lowell G. McManus"
<mcmanus71496@m...>
wrote:
>
> Mike D.,
>
>
I understand what you are saying, but I think you and I just interpreted
Hugh's
> second-paragraph question differently.
>
> Oh, I
don't know that there was ever a buoy marking the Lake Pontchartrain
>
parish quadripoint. If there was, I seriously doubt that it's there
anymore.
>
> Lowell G. McManus
> Leesville, Louisiana,
USA
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
"aletheia kallos" <aletheiak@y...>
> To:
<boundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005
2:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re: special congrats may be in
order for czdepl
> improvement
>
>
> >
lowell
> > you may well know better about louisiana & or
in
> > general & i hope you do
> > but the difficulty
with your florida example & perhaps
> > all of these you
mention
> > since the question rightly asks & the bill you
were
> > trying to fit is for more precision rather than just
>
> more officialness
> > is that the available geocoordinates are
neither
> > officially legal nor precise enough to be more
useful
> > than say the actual physical landform indications
we
> > have at czdepl
> > or than any other geopositional
guesses for that
> > matter i suppose
> >
> > here
for example
> > http://www.fgdl.org/metadata/fgdc_html/cntbnd.fgdc.htm
>
> you could probably find at least some quasiofficial
> > version
of your & our dear glhemaokpa quintipoint
> > down to a best
guessed square foot i believe
> > & despite the disclaimer 2
clicks down that says
> > the data included in this application are
based on
> > interpretation of available info & shouldnt
be
> > construed as legally binding
> > you might still have
wanted to conclude you had
> > arrived at something on the order of
the correct
> > square foot
> > which would be great since
thats about the size of the
> > window you would need to stand
in
> > for a class b try
> > but of course it is spurious or
haphazard accuracy in
> > their case & they pretty well admit
it
> > while what we are looking for is both full
> >
authenticity & as much real accuracy as possible
> >
> >
& if you go to the ruling bible in this case
> > for the legal
descriptions on which their guesses are
> > evidently based
>
> http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?
App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0007/ch0007.htm
>
> looking under glades hendry martin okeechobee & palm
> >
beach
> > you find it is just an indefinite definition &
a
> > purely hypothetical public land corner that the
> >
quasiofficial guess is based on
> >
> >
> > &
bill & i realized this too btw at the time when we
> > visited
circa 2000
> > but we based our try on the geocoords we were able
to
> > lovingly pull off the paper usgs topo
> > which was a
similarly quasiofficial & similarly
> > quasireliable
source
> > we knew full well
> > but again it was all we had
to go on at the time
> > & certainly good enough because this was
in the days
> > of selective availability
> > & even the
2 gps receivers we had on board werent
> > enough to be absolutely
sure we had the correct
> > integral degminsec or 100 foot
square
> >
> > so when we crossed our fingers & dropped
our buoy
> > there
> > it was not only the state of play for
glhemaokpa at
> > the time but the state of the art for
civilian
> > multipoint buoy emplacement in general i think
>
> & no matter that our buoy cable had another 20 feet of
> >
play in it too
> > nor that it was probably too frail to survive the
next
> > cold front
> > let alone a hurricane
>
>
> > & perhaps if we went back today with 2 gpsrs & a
fresh
> > buoy & cable & cinderblock
> > we could
hit the likeliest 10 foot square
> > thanx just to the loss of
selective availability
> > but i think based on the above data we
could not at
> > all yet hit the correct or even the likeliest
square
> > foot
> >
> >
> > nyonqc is a
whole nother matter
> > but the end result looks pretty much the same
from
> > here
> >
> > in fact after years of
research & a personal visit try
> > there too
> > i have
still not yet able to confirm that the turning
> > point number 1
shown here
> > http://topozone.com/map.asp?
z=18&n=4983683&e=525991&s=50&size=l&u=6&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25
>
> & geopositioned here
> > http://www.internationalboundarycommission.org/coordinates/SECT-K-83.txt
>
> is legally nyonqc
> > but as you see
> > it is legally
specified by the ibc only to the nearest
> > degminsecdec or 10 foot
square
> > so we are at best no better than the middle of
lake
> > okeechobee without a buoy in the middle of the saint
>
> lawrence & i suspect in the middle of lake
> > pontchartrain
too
> >
> > but if it turns out the usgs is wrong about
nyonqc
> > there
> > which is somewhat likely since i cant
find the really
> > pertinent canadian confirmation
> >
& some canadian maps disagree
> > then we apparently have even
less refinement to our
> > nyonqc coords
> > whatever they
may prove to be based on & ultimately be
> >
> >
>
> this question of the true nyonqc location btw is an
> >
interesting one in its own right
> > in case anyone can help answer
it
> >
> >
> > but in any case
> > does
any of this precision gap even matter in the 3
> > locations you are
talking about
> >
> > of course not practically
>
>
> > except perhaps when one is making a multipoint visit
>
> try
> >
> > & then one is trying ones very best on
principle
> > presumably
> >
> > but even then the
governing limitations are built into
> > the situation as
usual
> > since you can do no better than whats possible
> >
whatever that might be
> >
> > but at czedpl it appears the
very probably correct
> > square foot is not only possible
>
> but fairly easily reachable & doable
> >
> > indeed
there one might even fancy & try to wheedle the
> > correct
square decimeter
> >
> > --- "Lowell G. McManus"
<mcmanus71496@m...> wrote:
> >
> >> Since the CAUS
international boundary in the St.
> >> Lawrence River is reduced
to straight lines and
> >> turning points, the New
York-Ontario-Québec tripoint
> >> should fit the bill. The
famed county quintipoint
> >> in Lake Okeechobee, Florida, and the
lesser-known
> >> parish quadripoint in Lake Pontchartrain,
Louisiana,
> >> might also be examples, albeit in wide lakes
rather
> >> than streams.
> >>
> >> Lowell
G. McManus
> >> Leesville, Louisiana, USA
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>
>> From: Hugh Wallis
> >> To:
BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> >> Sent: Tuesday,
December 06, 2005 9:01 AM
> >> Subject: RE:
[BoundaryPoint] Re: special congrats
> >> may be in order for
czdepl improvement
> >>
> >>
>
>> Just curious - given the uncertainty about the
>
>> exact location expressed in your analysis, Mike, how
> >>
would you determine/measure "success" when you say
> >> "i can
only look forward all the more eagerly to our
> >> first
amphibious try here because there is now every
> >> reason to make
one & expect it will be successful "
> >>
>
>> This raises the question of whether you or anyone
>
>> else here are aware of any similar wet tripoints
> >>
being defined legally in some more precise (and
> >> stationary)
manner such as by means of providing
> >> Lat/Long coordinates
according to some datum (as
> >> distinct from your speculated
method in this case
> >> involving fluvial mid lines which
necessarily will
> >> change over time)
?.
>