That is what I meant when I said "which may require some research and debate as to whether
they qualify as genuine tripoints"
On the Kodansha map the sea there is marked "inland sea"
FWIW
Cheer
Hugh
also worth bearing in mind hugh
tho i havent been able to
access your kodansha scan of the 4 maritime tripoint prospects
& cant
say if googlemaps for japan might be any more reliable than say for oh
canada
i do very much believe that the 4 maritime provincial tripoints
indicated here for example
http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=47.159840,
-61.798096&spn=3.527161,7.159790&hl=en
&
on many other maps
namely nbnspe nbpeqc nspeqc & nlnsqc
are all
totally bogus legally
since canadian provinces actually have no seas beyond
their low tide lines
oops
even if they are just beginning to have
something resembling provincial seabed eezs
any or all of which may or
may not prove to be the case with japanese prefectures also
so i would
say legal confirmation is definitely needed & wanted for these japanese
fab 4
which could yet prove to be just as elusive as for the canadian fab
4
it is perhaps just another easy research question for a specially
qualified local informant
tho
within the larger but perhaps also easy
question of
exactly by what means are all these prefectural borders &
tripoints legally defined
--- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Hugh
Wallis" <hugh@o...> wrote:
>
> OK- watchizu does not show
maritime boundaries. However Yahoo does as
> follows
>
> Yamaguchi-Hiroshima-Ehime - http://map.yahoo.co.jp/pl?nl=34.00.00
>
<http://map.yahoo.co.jp/pl?nl=34.00.00&el=132.30.00&la=1&fi=1&sc=7>
>
&el=132.30.00&la=1&fi=1&sc=7
>
> Hiroshima
Ehime-Kagawa and Hiroshima-Kagawa-Okayama -
> http://map.yahoo.co.jp/pl?nl=34.19.20.304
>
<http://map.yahoo.co.jp/pl?nl=34.19.20.304&el=133.40.5.163&la=1&sc=7&ML.x=8&
>
ML.y=6>
&el=133.40.5.163&la=1&sc=7&ML.x=8&ML.y=6
>
> Okayama-Kagawa-Hyogo - http://map.yahoo.co.jp/pl?nl=34.19.20.304
>
<http://map.yahoo.co.jp/pl?nl=34.19.20.304&el=134.3.25.961&la=1&sc=7&RU.x=10
>
&RU.y=3>
&el=134.3.25.961&la=1&sc=7&RU.x=10&RU.y=3
>
> and you can zoom in and out and move around on these too
>
> Cheers
>
> Hugh
>
>
> _____
>
> From:
BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com]
>
On Behalf Of Hugh Wallis
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 12:20
PM
> To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE:
[BoundaryPoint] Re: My last 3 Japanese Tripoints
>
>
>
Attached is a scan of the relevant page from the Kodansha bilingual
Japanese
> atlas showing the possible maritime tripoints. I'll figure
out the correct
> topos shortly too
>
>
Cheers
>
> Hugh
>
>
>
_____
>
> From: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of aletheiak
>
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 12:04 PM
> To:
BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: My last 3
Japanese Tripoints
>
>
> actually i have already done most
of that exercise for the reader at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BoundaryPoint/message/17423
>
possibly the very email you mention
> as well as begun some of the other
exercises you are also undertaking here
> now
> tho a complete set
of hexaglyphs is probably what is most needed next
> for clarity
simplicity ease convenience titillation etc
> so maybe thats for me to
try on the next moonless night
> while i am also still assimilating all
your findings
>
> &
> i still cant speak with any
confidence beyond the apparently magical number
> of 44
> since i
havent found a map that actually shows or even intimates more than
>
these 44
> & dont read japanese or legalese very well
> but i
suppose maritime tripoints are still possible just as you suggest
>
> & it is any clear confirmation of such hypothetical possibilities
than is
> still really needed
>
> --- In
BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Hugh Wallis" <hugh@o...> wrote:
>
>
> > I believe at least 5 are wet - notably:
> >
> > Gifu Mie Aichi
> > Nagano Aichi Shizuoka
> >
Tochigi Saitama Ibaraki
> > Ibaraki Saitama Chiba
> >
Saitama Tokyo Chiba
> >
> > One I would characterise
as damp (being in a marshy area according to the
> > topo maps) -
notably:
> >
> > Niigata Gumma Fukushima
>
>
> > There may be other wet ones that I just haven't had
time to check the maps
> > for
> >
> > Also
there are 4 possible additional ones (over and above the 44 you
> >
identified in an earlier e-mail) that lie in the waters between the
>
islands
> > of Shikoku and Honshu which may require some research and
debate as to
> > whether they qualify as genuine tripoints (i.e., how
wet is wet?) -
> notably:
> >
> > Hiroshima
Yamaguchi Ehime
> > Hiroshima Ehime Kagawa
> > Okayama
Hiroshima Kagawa
> > Okayama Kagawa Hyogo
> >
> >
(Apologies for not getting them in correct alphabetical order but I'll
>
leave
> > that as a exercise to the reader :)
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Hugh
> >
> > P.S. Just for the record here are all of them working from South
West to
> > North East - I have also included prefectures that have
no tripoints by
> > identifying those prefectures with which they
have a border:
> >
> >
> >
> > Island Pref
1 Pref 2 Pref
3 Lat/Long
>
>
> > Kyushu
Nagasaki
Saga
> > Kyushu
Saga
Fukuoka
>
>
> > Kyushu
Kumamoto Kagoshima
Miyazaki
> > Kyushu
Oita Kumamoto
Miyazaki
> > Kyushu
Fukuoka Kumamoto
Oita
>
>
> > Shikoku
Ehime Kochi
Tokushima
> > Shikoku
Kagawa Ehime
Tokushima
>
>
> > Honshu
Shimane Yamaguchi
Hiroshima
> > Honshu
Tottori Shimane
Hiroshima
> > Honshu
Tottori Hiroshima
Okayama
> > Honshu
Hyogo Tottori
Okayama
> > Honshu
Kyoto Hyogo
Osaka
> > Honshu
Osaka Wakayama
Nara 34°22.986'N,
135°39.066'E
>
> >
Honshu Kyoto
Osaka Nara
34°46.668'N, 135°43.715'E
>
>
> Honshu Nara
Wakayama
Mie
> > Honshu
Fukui Kyoto
Shiga 35°21.349'N,
135°46.120'E
>
> >
Honshu Kyoto
Nara Mie
34°44.299'N, 136°03.330'E
>
>
> Honshu Shiga
Kyoto Mie
34°47.477'N, 136°01.334'E
>
>
> Honshu Fukui
Shiga Gifu
35°39.506'N, 136°16.837'E
>
>
> Honshu Gifu
Shiga Mie
35°13.058'N, 136°24.903'E
> >
Honshu Gifu
Mie Aichi
35°08.077'N, 136°40.368'E
> >
Honshu Ishikawa
Fukui Gifu
36°05.164'N, 136°45.242'E
>
>
> Honshu Toyama
Ishikawa Gifu
36°17.948'N, 136°47.535'E
>
>
> Honshu Nagano
Gifu Aichi
35°17.345'N, 137°33.712'E
>
>
> Honshu Nagano
Toyama Gifu
36°23.380'N, 137°35.230'E
>
>
> Honshu
Niigata Toyama
Nagano 36°45.962'N,
137°45.743'E
>
> >
Honshu Nagano
Aichi Shizuoka
35°12.734'N, 137°50.283'E
>
>
> Honshu Nagano
Shizuoka Yamanashi
35°38.661'N,
> 138°13.119'E
> >
> >
Honshu Saitama
Nagano Yamanashi
35°54.541'N,
> 138°43.742'E
> >
> >
Honshu Gumma
Nagano Saitama
35°59.109'N, 138°42.748'E
>
>
> Honshu
Niigata Nagano
Gumma 36°44.297'N,
138°41.756'E
>
> >
Honshu Yamanashi
Shizuoka Kanagawa
35°24.026'N,
> > 138°54.974'E
>
> Honshu
Saitama Yamanashi
Tokyo 35°51.276'N,
> 138°56.625'E
>
>
> > Honshu
Tokyo Yamanashi
Kanagawa 35°40.312'N,
>
139°07.859'E
> >
> > Honshu
Niigata Gumma
Fukushima 36°56.422'N,
>
139°13.907'E
> >
> > Honshu
Fukushima Gumma
Tochigi 36°54.632'N,
>
139°23.594'E
> >
> > Honshu
Tochigi Gumma
Saitama 36°12.421'N, 139°39.853'E
> >
> > Honshu
Tochigi Saitama
Ibaraki 36°11.968'N,
> >
139°41.263'E
> >
Honshu Ibaraki
Saitama Chiba
36°05.438'N, 139°46.562'E
> >
> >
Honshu Saitama
Tokyo Chiba
35°46.954'N, 139°53.613'E
>
>
> Honshu
Fukushima Tochigi
Ibaraki 36°55.990'N,
> >
140°15.853'E
> >
Honshu Yamagata
Niigata
Fukushima
> > Honshu
Miyagi Yamagata
Fukushima
> > Honshu
Akita Yamagata
Miyagi
> > Honshu
Akita Miyagi
Iwate
> > Honshu
Aomori Akita
Iwate
>
>
> > Sea
Hiroshima
Yamaguchi
Ehime
> > Sea
Hiroshima Ehime
Kagawa
> > Sea
Okayama Hiroshima
Kagawa
> > Sea
Okayama Kagawa
Hyogo
>
>
> > Hokkaido
Hokkaido
> >
> >
> > _____
>
>
> > From: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com]
> > On Behalf Of aletheia
kallos
> > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 11:06 AM
> >
To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [BoundaryPoint]
Re: My last 3 Japanese Tripoints
> >
> >
> >
thanx i immediately understood or even anticipated all
> >
this
> > as i had already dropped my class d guess myself
last
> > night
> > as soon as i realized there just isnt
enough parallax
> > between the 2 long views to support it
>
> while i am not at all surprised to find our 922 tower
> >
guesses & all your other data confirmations
> > do match up with
mine so perfectly
> >
> > so yes i do very much see &
agree now
> >
> > the tripoint will be found way closer to
the
> > nonviewing tower than my imagined marker
> > &
at something very much more on the order of only 2
> > degrees to the
left of that tower
> > rather than 20 degrees
> >
oops
> > hahahaha
> >
> > in fact almost closer to
its base than is its own apex
> >
> > but so much the more
likely obscured rather than
> > highlighted by veggies
> >
> > & thus elusive after all
> >
> >
>
> but i would love to walk those last 100 or so steps
> > up
> > the communications tower first btw
> > even if only
just for the previewing of the tripoint &
> > immediate
triarea
> >
> > for this tower
> > rather than
your viewing tower properly so called
> > could well prove to be the
worlds most magnificent
> > tripoint viewing tower
> >
> >
> > & to climb those steps btw not only for that
obvious
> > reason
> > but also to at least address &
relish the probability
> > in that tower
> > of reaching
some absolutely true
> > rather than conveniently compromised &
moderated
> > altitudinal extremity
> > of some real place
perhaps
> > even if not a whole prefecture
> > &
conceivably even of 2 real places at once
> > in view of its ridge
line borderline location
> >
> > & even if actually
shimmying up to the very top of the
> > tower proves
impossible
> >
> > or even if the altitude of the top of
the peak tower
> > proves higher
> >
> > albeit
luckily higher in both those places at once
> > also
> >
hahaha
> > for happily too it looks like a close call between
>
> these state line tower tops for the altimeters
> >
> >
> > & i am also pleased to add to your overall analysis
>
> that my admittedly still crude & preliminary
> > punctoscopy
of the prefectural tripoints of japan
> > suggests that as many as 36
of the probably 44 of them
> > in all are in fact dry
> >
> > so we have many more prospective markers to at least
>
> try for
> >
> > in fact japan is looking almost as
good in this regard
> > as the berkshire county town
tripoints
> > where i am still at least expecting & hoping for
all
> > 44 markers out of all 44 tripoints
> >
> >
> > but of course every try is its own reward too
> >
whether wet dry marked unmarked or even known at all
> > & i very
much enjoyed & appreciated all 5 of yours
> > here in its &
their own right too
> >
> > --- Hugh Wallis
<hugh@o...> wrote:
> >
> > > OK - let me try to
set the stage a bit better.
> > >
> > > The
tower you see in my photograph is not a viewing
> > > tower as far
as I can
> > > tell - it looks more like a communications tower.
My
> > > photo was taken from
> > > the top of the
viewing tower which is what I paid
> > > 100 yen (which is
only
> > > about CDN 1.00) to go up and which is the white
>
> > tower pictured on the right
> > > hand side of the
ticket.
> > >
> > > The radio tower is the
taller of the two towers but
> > > lower down as you
> >
> surmise and is approximately at the point on the map
> > >
marked with a spot
> > > height of 922m I would guess. The viewing
tower is
> > > approximately at the
> > > point on the
map marked as a trig point (with a
> > > triangle) - about 100m
from
> > > the geocache. My GPSr indicated that the
tripoint
> > > was approximately 800m
> > > from the
viewing tower in the direction of the radio
> > > tower. From the
map I
> > > conclude that it is beyond the radio tower.
>
> >
> > > I see the white post you refer to but, from
the
> > > above analysis and the map I
> > > would
think this is unlikely to be the tripoint
> > > marker since it
seems to be
> > > too far to the left to my thinking.
> >
>
> > > From my observations at the four dry tries I
made
> > > (and, indeed, the wet one)
> > > I conclude
at this stage that boundary and tripoint
> > > marking is sporadic
in
> > > Japan. Some of the markers I photographed (the
stone
> > > ones) appear to be
> > > older, some
newer, and some (the plastic ones which
> > > are very firmly
embedded
> > > in the ground, by the way - I did try tugging
on
> > > them) very new indeed,
> > > possibly
recently surveyed for specfic reasons such
> > > as the
construction of
> > > the golf course etc. It is also instructive
that in
> > > the area of
> > >
Kanagawa-Shizuoka-Yamanashi, the only border markers
> > > I could
locate were
> > > those on the Kanagawa-Yamanashi and the
>
> > Shizuoka-Kanagawa borders - the
> > > Shizuoka-Yamanashi
border did not appear to be
> > > marked, providing
further
> > > evidence for my supposition.
> > >
> > > In summary - I don't think that all dry tripoints
in
> > > Japan are physically
> > > marked on the
ground.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> >
>
> > > Hugh
> > >
> >
> _____
> > >
> > > From:
BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > >
[mailto:BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com]
> > > On Behalf Of
aletheiak
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 10:19
PM
> > > To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > >
Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: My last 3 Japanese
> > >
Tripoints
> > >
> > >
> > > now hugh
about fsibtc again
> > > at the bottom of http://tinyurl.com/9gzsz
> > >
i have still not been able to get completely clear
> > >
>
> > you say there is a viewing tower at the top of the
> > >
mountain
> > > & you show 2 towers
> > > either
one of which could conceivably be the one you
> > > mean
>
> >
> > > but then i also would have just guessed
you
> > > photographed the taller but
> > > apparently
lower
> > > tower from the shorter but apparently higher
one
> > > that is
> > > until i saw the 100 yen price
tag on the latter
> > >
> > > &
> >
> the slight difference between the 2 viewing angles
> > > of
this taller lower
> > > tower also suggests
> > > you
may have taken your magnificent panoramic
> > > atmospheric photo
of it not
> > > from the
> > > actual summit &
small tower & geocache point
> > > necessarily at all
>
> > like the other one
> > > if indeed they were all 3 of
them at this singular
> > > mountaintop location
> >
> as perhaps hinted by you & the gcm5pp dot & or
> > >
nearby triangle on your map
> > > swatch
> > > but
rather
> > > from perhaps much closer to the bottom center
of
> > > this map swatch
> > > i would guess
>
> > where you also evidently passed
> > >
> > >
& i have guessed this
> > > as well as provisionally placed
the tall tower on
> > > the elevation point
> > >
indicated as 922 on the
> > > map swatch
> > > just
for lack of anything more definitive to go on
> > > which perhaps
you can still provide in correction
> > >
> > > &
then
> > > continuing hypothetically by measuring the
viewing
> > > angle toward the tripoint
> > > at about
20
> > > degrees left of the centered tower based on all
the
> > > above surmises
> > > lo & behold
>
> > what do i see there in plain view but a tall thin
> > >
white post
> > > in a light brown patch set off by a dark
green
> > > background
> > > at roughly kilometric
range
> > > about midway between the tower & the power pole
line
> > > cum perhaps roadway to
> > > its
left
> > >
> > > but do you follow any of this
or
> > > more importantly
> > > do you
> >
> s e e
> > > in your pic the object i am talking
about
> > >
> > > for thats a clear class d guess
> > > rather than some impossibly elusive class e hope
>
> >
> > > or has my imagination run away from us
already
> > >
> > >
> > > but
anyway
> > > while you are mulling & or laughing over
that
> > > a perhaps bigger question
> > > now that we
have had serious tries at so many as 4
> > > dry ones
> >
> is
> > > do you imagine they are all in fact marked
>
> > with some just being more elusive than others for
> > >
various reasons
> > > or do you suppose they are indifferently
&
> > > haphazardly marked as chance
> > > would
have it
> > >
> > > in other words
> > >
given sufficient time & care & luck etc
> > > from all
youve seen & been able to learn for sure as
> > > well as just
guess
> > > do you think you would have bagged all 4 of
these
> > > class a
> > > just like you surely did
with knszyn
> > > & that we can therefore still expect or hope
there
> > > are as many marked
> > > prefectural
tripoints
> > > in japan as there are dry ones
>
> >
> > > or is it still too soon to hazard any
such
> > > generalization
> > >
> > > ---
In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Hugh Wallis"
> > >
<hugh@o...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Report
is now available at
> > > >
> > >
>
>
> http://freepages.misc.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/Japan_2005-11-12_to_2005-11-1
>
> > > 4/ - a.k.a. http://tinyurl.com/9gzsz
> > >
>
> > > > This covers my visits to:
> > >
>
> > > > Kyoto-Mie-Nara
> > > >
Kanagawa-Shizuoka-Yamanashi
> > > >
> > >
> and
> > > >
> > > > Ibaraki
-Fukushima-Tochigi
> > > >
> > > >
Enjoy
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> >
> >
> > > > Hugh
> > > >
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> === message truncated ===
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> > __________________________________
> > Start your day
with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> >
> >
> >
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