Fra:
BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af jim van dura
Sendt: 17. september 2005 21:06
Til: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
Cc: boundarypoint@yahoogroups.com
Emne: [BoundaryPoint] Re:
[borderpoint] Various border documents for my 7 year honeymoon trip
--- Jesper Nielsen
<jesniel@...> wrote:
> From
Ewan Anderson's International Boundaries I
> found
this list for
>
>
>
> FRMC:
Boundary Unchanged since its establishment in
> 1070
>
> ITSM:
Congress of Vienna (1797), Treaty of
> Friendship
between Italy and San
> Marino
(1862)
>
> ESGB:
Peace Treaty of Utrecht (1713) came under
> British
rule and
>
subsequently confirmed by Treaty of Seville (1729)
> ,Treaty
of Vienna (1731),
> Treaty
of Aix-le-Chapelle (1756), Treaty of Paris
> (1736),
Treaty of
>
Versailles (1983) confirmed all these Treaties
>
> ESMO:
No international agreements
>
>
>
> Well,
FRMC and ITSM will only be visited on the
> trip,
but typically me I
> will
comment on the above documents before further
>
research.
>
>
>
> It's
remarkable that Spain is unhappy about
>
Gibraltar since so many
>
documents seem to confirm the border.
>Why? Who said signing a
treaty makes a country happy?
:-)
> Ceuta
and Melilla: Who established the zeutral zones
> around
the coastal
>
fragments? Spain or Morocco, and what is the
>
function?
>As you say,
there are no ESMO border agreements. And
>that means
theirs are de facto, rather than de jure,
>borders ...
or rather, de facto frontiers really
>(rather
than borders at all perhaps). And the neutral
>zones or
"no man's lands" between the ES and MO
<positions
reflect and preserve only an ongoing
>military
standoff, rather than any subsequent
<diplomatic
arrangements. But in the case of the ES and
>GB neutral
zone, diplomatic agreements have
>perpetuated
former military positions, while also
>demilitarizing
them. In every case, though, the
>function of
all such territorial offsets is basically
>just safety
and/or security, and the happiest borders
>tend not to
have them at all.
This is very interesting. One of my colleagues one said joking that power lies with the ones with the biggest guns. Which in some respect is true. What makes a country and what makes a border. De jure is not necessary when de facto is accepted. There are (I assume) no international documents declaring that Cornwall is British and Funen is Danish.
Well, I could declare Cornwall for the “ Republic of Cornwall ”, but Britain with their biggest gun may not agree.
Anyway, for a borderfreak, visiting ESMO may be of mix feelings. The militarized setting is graceful to the camera, but having one foot in ES and one in MO may be an impossible task.
Jesper