I'm responding to only the first of many messages I've seen from you
thus far... Re: "National Euros" of the others: they all have the
right to issue Euro denominated Eucommemorative collector coins that
are not legal tender throughout the community. It's like there is a
three tiered system going - Community Euros, National-only collector
Euros from Euroland countries and Euros of the non-Euro states (those
good elsewhere under the agreements and Collector coins from non-Euro
states good inside them only).
I'll look through the archives of the Bank and the Community for info
about Montenegro AND Kosovo - which is using it, too. They may be
only unofficially circulating the notes and coins - and not issuing
their own. If I find anything, I'll holler.
LN
--- In
BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Wolfgang Schaub"
<Wolfgang.Schaub@c...> wrote:
> "My conclusions about all of this are that the Euros authorized by
> Europe (Munzrecht, in German)) are "national Euros", in that they are
> issued by countries outside of the Euro Zone": Len, all you say is
correct,
> but I fail to understand your conclusion (maybe my logics are
> under-developed). I concur with your view as the "national Euros" of the
> mini-states are concerned, but still I do not regard the Euros of
the Euro
> zone as national ones.
>
> To complicate the matter even further: Can you develop some thoughts
about
> the Euro used by Montenegro?
>
> Wolfgang
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: L. A. Nadybal [mailto:lnadybal@c...]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 8. Februar 2005 02:50
> An: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Seborga's currency
>
>
>
> In further researching the subject of "National Euros" vs. "A Single
> Euro" used by all, I came across what may, I hope, be interesting
> surprises for readers.
>
> a. The European Central Bank (ECB) officially considers the
> Vatican, San Marino and Andorra to be "non-Euro" states.
>
> b. The ECB carefully makes note in official releases that the
> European Community (Strasbourg), and not the Bank, authorized these
> three countries to issue their own Euro coins.
>
> (1) Since 1 January 1999 the Principality of Monaco has been
> entitled to use the euro as its official currency. It does not have
> the right to issue euro banknotes. Since 1 January 2002 it has been
> entitled to issue euro coins with an annual volume of 1/500th of the
> quantity of coins minted in France.
>
> (2) Since 1 January 1999 the Republic of San Marino has been
> entitled to use the euro as its official currency. It does not issue
> banknotes, coins or monetary surrogates of any kind, with the
> exception of the limited number of euro coins specified in the
> Agreement. It is allowed to mint euro coins up to a maximum annual
> face value of EUR 1 944 000.
>
> (3) Since 1 January 1999 the Vatican City State has been
> entitled to use the euro as its official currency. It does not issue
> banknotes, coins or monetary surrogates of any kind, with the
> exception of the limited number of euro coins specified in the
> Agreement. It is allowed to mint euro coins up to a maximum annual
> face value of EUR 670 000. In the year in which a vacancy occurs in
> the Holy See, in a Holy Jubilee Year or in the year of the opening of
> an Ecumenical Council, it may issue additional coins to the value of
> EUR 201 000.
>
> [(1) - (3) pasted from the EEC document.]
>
> The agreements with these three were concluded by Italy and France
> with the countries concerned, "on behalf" of the Community, in
> accordance with Article 111(3) of the EC Treaty. The agreement with
> the Vatican was concluded by the Holy See "on behalf of the Vatican
> City State".
>
> What is intersting, is that for all three mini-states, they are
> entitled to issue Euro denominated commemorative collector coins, but
> the are, by these treaties, not legal tender outside of their own
borders.
>
> Historically, "the Franc coins of Monaco were not legal tender in
> France, but the French currency was legal tender in Monaco" according
> to the European Commission.
>
> "Italy has concluded several agreements with San Marino containing
> provisions on monetary matters to the effect that notes and coins
> issued by Italy were legal tender in San Marino. With the exception of
> gold coins, coins issued by San Marino had the same shape, size and
> composition as coins circulating in Italy. The agreements limited the
> number of such coins that could be issued; these coins were legal
> tender in San Marino and in Italy."
>
> "Italy also has particular monetary links with the Vatican that are
> based on an agreement whereby coins issued by Italy were legal tender
> in the Vatican. Notes issued by the Bank of Italy were not legal
> tender [!!!] but, in practice, circulated on Vatican territory. ...
> The agreement limited the number of such coins that could be issued;
> these were legal tender in the Vatican and in Italy."
>
> ["" text pasted from past press releases of the EC.]
>
> My conclusions about all of this are that the Euros authorized by
> Europe (Munzrecht, in German)) are "national Euros", in that they are
> issued by countries outside of the Euro Zone, and commemorative,
> collector Euro coins can be issued by these countries that would have
> validity as legal tender only inside the sovereign nation that issued
> them.
>
> Regards to all.
>
> LN
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Wolfgang Schaub"
> <Wolfgang.Schaub@c...> wrote:
> > Formally, you are right in a way, Len, as always. By the same
token, the
> > "universal" currency converter should then distinguish between a
> German and
> > a French Euro, because they both have a different physiognomy.
> >
> > And why don't they list then the old San Marino Lira like they do
> with the
> > other "obsolete" European currencies? I have a San Marino Lira coin
> in my
> > collection. And why not the Monaco Franc? I have a Monaco Franc coin
> in my
> > collection.
> >
> > Although this is increasingly off-topic: There was no Vatican Lira
> in terms
> > of currency. There was a Vatican Lira only in terms of physiognomy.
> Or: Does
> > anybody know of a Vatican Central Bank?
> >
> > The story is different with the old Luxemburg and Belgian Francs:
> These were
> > true currencies, just bound to each other. And probably this is also
> so with
> > the Panama, Argentina and Ecuador currencies (but here I am not so
> sure).
> >
> > Definitely there is no Seborga currency either, although there are
> coins for
> > collectors that one can buy in any Seborga shop, like they are
in San
> > Marino, Monaco and the Vatican. The catholic church would be the
> least to
> > omit a chance to make money out of nothing. The fact that mints
may be
> > operating in these countries does not mean anything. If I want, I
> also can
> > produce my own coins at home.
> >
> > And as far as the Euro goes, there is only one, managed by the
European
> > Central Bank in Frankfurt. That Euros have different reverse sides
> is only a
> > political game and made for collectors. That member countries retain
> their
> > respective National Banks is only for statistics and to manage the
> > conversion of "obsolete" coins and paper bills found in jacket
> pockets when
> > one pulls them out from a long-unopened wardrobe. As Germany is
> concerned
> > one can swap Deutsche Marks against Euros for an indefinite
period...
> >
> > Wolfgang
> >
> >
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: L. A. Nadybal [mailto:lnadybal@c...]
> > Gesendet: Sonntag, 6. Februar 2005 05:44
> > An: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > Betreff: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Seborga's currency
> >
> >
> >
> > The Vatican had its own Lira - it issued its own coins (albeit
some
> > produced by the Italian state mint). With the Euro, the
Vatican has,
> > from the European Central Bank, its own allocation from the
universe
> > of Euros that can be issued by each monetary authority (as
does San
> > Marino).
> >
> > Vatican Euros are not Italian Euros although they are worth
exactly
> > the same, and each countries' Euros circulate in both neighboring
> > countries and are mutually accepted as legal tender.
> >
> > The Vatican situation wasn't much diferent in the Lira days
than that
> > which exists in Panama. As far as I know from my Canal Zone days,
> > Panama has the Balboa which is worth exactly the same as a US
dollar,
> > but it has never issued Balboa banknotes, only Balboa coins. For
> > banknotes, US dollar bills circulate. Unlike Rome, however,
Balboa
> > coins don't circulate in the US and are not legal tender here.
> >
> > LN
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Wolfgang Schaub"
> > <Wolfgang.Schaub@c...> wrote:
> > > There is other nonsense in the "Universal Currency
Converter": They
> > speak of
> > > a Vatican Lira (obsolete). To my knowledge this was always the
> > Italian Lira,
> > > as it is, by the way, in Seborga: The Luigino is fiction, as far
> as it
> > > claims to be a currency; it is reality, as far as it is a
souvenir
> > that you
> > > can buy in shops in Seborga at a rate dictated by Sua Altissima
> Serenita
> > > Prince Giorgio I. Still to-date, Prince Giorgio believes it
makes
> > sense to
> > > set the "exchange rate" at 1 : 6 to the US Dollar. Tomorrow
he may
> > choose to
> > > set a new rate "bound" to the Euro or the Swiss Franc. He
will go on
> > doing
> > > his nonsense at the pleasure of Silvio Berlusconi, and make
a lot of
> > money
> > > for Seborga, through the stupidity of (American) tourists.
> "Look, honey,
> > > it's so easy to change; they gonna give us 1 for 6 bucks".
> > >
> > > Wolfgang
> > > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
> > > Von: Asher Samuels [mailto:asher972@y...]
> > > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 3. Februar 2005 13:34
> > > An: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > > Betreff: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Seborga's currency
> > >
> > >
> > > It could be in there as a copyright trap.
> > > --- Brendan Whyte <bwhyte@u...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > If you go to the Universal Currency Converter
> > > > http://www.xe.com/ucc/full.shtml
> > > > you will find Seborga's Luigino currency listed alongside
> all other
> > > > national currencies...
> > > > 1 SPL = 4.60780 EUR
> > > > 1 EUR = 0.217023 SPL
> > > >
> > > > intriguing...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Brendan
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
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> >
>
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