He issued a lot of lead, nickel, copper and other "coins", too.
I call them nothing more than medals - they never had any circulating
value.
LN
--- In
BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Wolfgang Schaub"
<Wolfgang.Schaub@c...> wrote:
> One of the Co-Princeps of Andorra, the bishop Joan Marti Alanis de
Urgell,
> ruling since 1971, was clever enough to issue Andorra gold coins in
1994, in
> the fantasy currency Diner", only for collectors. Note: When there
is money
> to make, the catholic church will not fail.
>
> Wolfgang
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: L. A. Nadybal [mailto:lnadybal@c...]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 8. Februar 2005 04:07
> An: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: [BoundaryPoint] Non-Euro States
>
>
>
> UPDATE:
> At "a.", in my last message, I should have included Monaco.
> At b(3), Vatican, another document from the EC made note that the
> Vatican more recently requested and received authorization to increase
> its Euro-coins outut to 1M Mill./year.
>
> An agreement was to have been concluded in Nov 04 between the
> community and Andorra on its special situation (unlike Vatican, Monaco
> and San Marino, it never had coinage rights in all its history, and to
> give it Euro coinage rights now is a peculiarity that was to be dealt
> with). I can't find a copy of any agreement, so I'm not able to
> confirm what the situation is in Andorra right now.
> LN
>
>
>
>
> --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "L. A. Nadybal" <lnadybal@c...>
> wrote:
> >
> > In further researching the subject of "National Euros" vs. "A Single
> > Euro" used by all, I came across what may, I hope, be interesting
> > surprises for readers.
> >
> > a. The European Central Bank (ECB) officially considers the
> > Vatican, San Marino and Andorra to be "non-Euro" states.
> >
> > b. The ECB carefully makes note in official releases that the
> > European Community (Strasbourg), and not the Bank, authorized these
> > three countries to issue their own Euro coins.
> >
> > (1) Since 1 January 1999 the Principality of Monaco has
been
> > entitled to use the euro as its official currency. It does not have
> > the right to issue euro banknotes. Since 1 January 2002 it has been
> > entitled to issue euro coins with an annual volume of 1/500th of the
> > quantity of coins minted in France.
> >
> > (2) Since 1 January 1999 the Republic of San Marino has
been
> > entitled to use the euro as its official currency. It does not issue
> > banknotes, coins or monetary surrogates of any kind, with the
> > exception of the limited number of euro coins specified in the
> > Agreement. It is allowed to mint euro coins up to a maximum annual
> > face value of EUR 1 944 000.
> >
> > (3) Since 1 January 1999 the Vatican City State has been
> > entitled to use the euro as its official currency. It does not issue
> > banknotes, coins or monetary surrogates of any kind, with the
> > exception of the limited number of euro coins specified in the
> > Agreement. It is allowed to mint euro coins up to a maximum annual
> > face value of EUR 670 000. In the year in which a vacancy occurs in
> > the Holy See, in a Holy Jubilee Year or in the year of the
opening of
> > an Ecumenical Council, it may issue additional coins to the value of
> > EUR 201 000.
> >
> > [(1) - (3) pasted from the EEC document.]
> >
> > The agreements with these three were concluded by Italy and France
> > with the countries concerned, "on behalf" of the Community, in
> > accordance with Article 111(3) of the EC Treaty. The agreement with
> > the Vatican was concluded by the Holy See "on behalf of the Vatican
> > City State".
> >
> > What is intersting, is that for all three mini-states, they are
> > entitled to issue Euro denominated commemorative collector
coins, but
> > the are, by these treaties, not legal tender outside of their own
> borders.
> >
> > Historically, "the Franc coins of Monaco were not legal tender in
> > France, but the French currency was legal tender in Monaco"
according
> > to the European Commission.
> >
> > "Italy has concluded several agreements with San Marino containing
> > provisions on monetary matters to the effect that notes and coins
> > issued by Italy were legal tender in San Marino. With the
exception of
> > gold coins, coins issued by San Marino had the same shape, size and
> > composition as coins circulating in Italy. The agreements
limited the
> > number of such coins that could be issued; these coins were legal
> > tender in San Marino and in Italy."
> >
> > "Italy also has particular monetary links with the Vatican that are
> > based on an agreement whereby coins issued by Italy were legal
tender
> > in the Vatican. Notes issued by the Bank of Italy were not legal
> > tender [!!!] but, in practice, circulated on Vatican territory. ...
> > The agreement limited the number of such coins that could be issued;
> > these were legal tender in the Vatican and in Italy."
> >
> > ["" text pasted from past press releases of the EC.]
> >
> > My conclusions about all of this are that the Euros authorized by
> > Europe (Munzrecht, in German)) are "national Euros", in that
they are
> > issued by countries outside of the Euro Zone, and commemorative,
> > collector Euro coins can be issued by these countries that would
have
> > validity as legal tender only inside the sovereign nation that
issued
> > them.
> >
> > Regards to all.
> >
> > LN
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Wolfgang Schaub"
> > <Wolfgang.Schaub@c...> wrote:
> > > Formally, you are right in a way, Len, as always. By the same
> token, the
> > > "universal" currency converter should then distinguish between a
> > German and
> > > a French Euro, because they both have a different physiognomy.
> > >
> > > And why don't they list then the old San Marino Lira like they do
> > with the
> > > other "obsolete" European currencies? I have a San Marino Lira
coin
> > in my
> > > collection. And why not the Monaco Franc? I have a Monaco
Franc coin
> > in my
> > > collection.
> > >
> > > Although this is increasingly off-topic: There was no Vatican Lira
> > in terms
> > > of currency. There was a Vatican Lira only in terms of
physiognomy.
> > Or: Does
> > > anybody know of a Vatican Central Bank?
> > >
> > > The story is different with the old Luxemburg and Belgian Francs:
> > These were
> > > true currencies, just bound to each other. And probably this
is also
> > so with
> > > the Panama, Argentina and Ecuador currencies (but here I am not so
> > sure).
> > >
> > > Definitely there is no Seborga currency either, although there are
> > coins for
> > > collectors that one can buy in any Seborga shop, like they are
in San
> > > Marino, Monaco and the Vatican. The catholic church would be the
> > least to
> > > omit a chance to make money out of nothing. The fact that
mints may be
> > > operating in these countries does not mean anything. If I want, I
> > also can
> > > produce my own coins at home.
> > >
> > > And as far as the Euro goes, there is only one, managed by the
> European
> > > Central Bank in Frankfurt. That Euros have different reverse sides
> > is only a
> > > political game and made for collectors. That member countries
retain
> > their
> > > respective National Banks is only for statistics and to manage the
> > > conversion of "obsolete" coins and paper bills found in jacket
> > pockets when
> > > one pulls them out from a long-unopened wardrobe. As Germany is
> > concerned
> > > one can swap Deutsche Marks against Euros for an indefinite
period...
> > >
> > > Wolfgang
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > Von: L. A. Nadybal [mailto:lnadybal@c...]
> > > Gesendet: Sonntag, 6. Februar 2005 05:44
> > > An: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > > Betreff: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Seborga's currency
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The Vatican had its own Lira - it issued its own coins
(albeit some
> > > produced by the Italian state mint). With the Euro, the Vatican
> has,
> > > from the European Central Bank, its own allocation from the
universe
> > > of Euros that can be issued by each monetary authority (as
does San
> > > Marino).
> > >
> > > Vatican Euros are not Italian Euros although they are worth
exactly
> > > the same, and each countries' Euros circulate in both
neighboring
> > > countries and are mutually accepted as legal tender.
> > >
> > > The Vatican situation wasn't much diferent in the Lira days than
> that
> > > which exists in Panama. As far as I know from my Canal Zone
days,
> > > Panama has the Balboa which is worth exactly the same as a US
> dollar,
> > > but it has never issued Balboa banknotes, only Balboa coins.
For
> > > banknotes, US dollar bills circulate. Unlike Rome, however,
Balboa
> > > coins don't circulate in the US and are not legal tender here.
> > >
> > > LN
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Wolfgang Schaub"
> > > <Wolfgang.Schaub@c...> wrote:
> > > > There is other nonsense in the "Universal Currency Converter":
> They
> > > speak of
> > > > a Vatican Lira (obsolete). To my knowledge this was always the
> > > Italian Lira,
> > > > as it is, by the way, in Seborga: The Luigino is fiction,
as far
> > as it
> > > > claims to be a currency; it is reality, as far as it is a
souvenir
> > > that you
> > > > can buy in shops in Seborga at a rate dictated by Sua
Altissima
> > Serenita
> > > > Prince Giorgio I. Still to-date, Prince Giorgio believes
it makes
> > > sense to
> > > > set the "exchange rate" at 1 : 6 to the US Dollar.
Tomorrow he may
> > > choose to
> > > > set a new rate "bound" to the Euro or the Swiss Franc. He will
> go on
> > > doing
> > > > his nonsense at the pleasure of Silvio Berlusconi, and make a
> lot of
> > > money
> > > > for Seborga, through the stupidity of (American) tourists.
> > "Look, honey,
> > > > it's so easy to change; they gonna give us 1 for 6 bucks".
> > > >
> > > > Wolfgang
> > > > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
> > > > Von: Asher Samuels [mailto:asher972@y...]
> > > > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 3. Februar 2005 13:34
> > > > An: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Betreff: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Seborga's currency
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It could be in there as a copyright trap.
> > > > --- Brendan Whyte <bwhyte@u...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > If you go to the Universal Currency Converter
> > > > > http://www.xe.com/ucc/full.shtml
> > > > > you will find Seborga's Luigino currency listed alongside
> > all other
> > > > > national currencies...
> > > > > 1 SPL = 4.60780 EUR
> > > > > 1 EUR = 0.217023 SPL
> > > > >
> > > > > intriguing...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Brendan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
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> > >
> >
>
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