For an explanation of why these two nicks are in the 1958 agreement (but not how
they came to be nicks rather than some other form of delimitation), see sections
2.71 through 2.74 about two-thirds of the way down the long page at
http://tinyurl.com/6elp3 .
Lowell G. McManus
Leesville, Louisiana, USA
----- Original Message -----
From: "aletheiak" <aletheiak@...>
To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 11:54 AM
Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Map site
& i just noticed the following paragraph of the agreement also
names & similarly nicks the next island to the north along the
bhsa line
lubainah al kabirah
but in favor of saudi arabia in that instance
this island is evidently badly depicted by the cia in 1980
& is then dropped entirely from their 1991 & 2003 updates
as their depictions of the border itself were wandering all over
the place too
but this apparently forgotten & still remote example of a nick may
yet remain as real & extant as the ile verte nick
or rather the several cafr nicks
since i do recall ile verte was not the only islet nicked there either
& this kabirah nick now perhaps stands as the oldest known
remaining survivor of them all
with the cape muzon nick also remaining of course
but only as an orange to all these apples
i would be interested to know if there are any others of either type
--- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, aletheia kallos
<aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> but i should probably add in clarification that the
> only point that interested me very much
> in all of this mess
> was just whether the 1958 bhsa treaty
> originally created a 1972 cafr style ile verte nick
> as i figured it must have
>
> & it was only a presumptive ghost nick in view of both
> the sketchiness of all my data for guessing it
> & all the subsequent backfill on both sides of it
>
> but it would have been a predecessor to the odd nick
> that still exists on cafr
>
> & it would also be a quantum leap into the 20th
> century when compared to the still problematical 19th
> century style presumed granddaddy of all nicks
> at cape muzon alaska
> at the southern terminal point of the northern sector
> of the caus land border
>
> & i have indeed found this confirmation in article 1
> paragraph 8 of
> http://www.law.fsu.edu/library/collection/LimitsinSeas/ls012.pdf
> along with what was then evidently the bahraini name
> at least of the now international island
>
> lubainah al saghirah
>
> qed i suppose
>
> --- aletheia kallos <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
>
> >
> > ok good
> > but i dont yet find all the confirmation you say we
> > do
> >
> > & the impression i am getting from all of this taken
> > together is that only the saudi border post is on
> > the
> > international island whose name we dont yet know
> > as shown by the cia in 2003
> > whereas the bahraini post seems not to be there
> > facing
> > the saudi post directly on that island at all
> > for all i can gather
> > but appears to be rather on this larger & also
> > partially backfilled
> > umm nasan
> > or umm an nasan
> > or umm al nasan
> > island
> > presumably properly so called in every case
> > in proximity & together with the wildlife preserve
> > etc
> >
> > in this i am taking both the travel images & the
> > french source at their word about all of it
> > rather than presuming there is any mistake at all
> >
> > for considering the change in the shape of this
> > larger
> > island also
> > as also depicted by the cia between 1980 & 1991
> > i dont believe that the french text
> > however fragmentary or wobbly it may be
> > necessarily refers to 2 different islands
> > as i am guessing you presume it does
> >
> > for we are back at that delicate cleavage between
> > what
> > is actually confirmed & what is only supposed
> >
> > --- "Lowell G. McManus" <mcmanus71496@m...>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Ooops! I goofed the URL too, although I did get
> > us
> > > to the PCL's Bahrain map
> > > index page. A direct link to the 1980 map is
> > > http://tinyurl.com/6pjvk .
> > >
> > > Yes, you did indeed speak of backfilling.
> > >
> > > I had not noticed the name "Umm Na'san" on the
> > > larger natural island on the
> > > maps. The name "Umm Al Na'san" seem to be applied
> > > to the largely artificial
> > > border-station island in the caption to a photo at
> >
> > > http://www.travel-images.com/bahrain.html . This
> > is
> > > probably an error by the
> > > author of that page.
> > >
> > > In the Google cache of a now-extinct French web
> > > site, we find confirmation not
> > > only that the name belongs to the larger island,
> > but
> > > also that the photo in
> > > question is that of the artificial border-station
> > > island: "La douane se trouve
> > > sur une île artificielle construite sur le détroit
> > > qui sépare le Bahreïn du
> > > continent. Sur l'île, il y a une tour avec un
> > > restaurant qui offre un panorama
> > > magnifique. Le pont traverse aussi l'île de Umm
> > > Al-Na'san qui est une réserve
> > > naturelle."
> > >
> > > Lowell G. McManus
> > > Leesville, Louisiana, USA
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "aletheiak" <aletheiak@y...>
> > > To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 11:36 PM
> > > Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Map site
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > oops & thanx & yes i mean enlarged by addition of
> > > fill
> > > or by backfilling as i finally also said
> > >
> > > & i may be able to translate
> > > for whatever help that might be to you
> > > but it appears from both the bahrain maps in the
> > > link originally
> > > brought by jesper & at pcl that umm al nasan is
> > only
> > > the much
> > > larger island entirely within bahrain about 5km
> > east
> > > of the one
> > > that appears to have been enlarged by saudi arabia
> > > along the
> > > bhsa maritime border
> > > & to which i believe jesper is & am sure i am
> > > referring to
> > > & for which there is no name given on any map i
> > have
> > > yet seen
> > >
> > > but perhaps i have misunderstood you here
> > >
> > > or do you mean you have found reason to believe
> > umm
> > > al nasan
> > > is the name of this international island also
> > > however improbably
> > >
> > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Lowell G.
> > > McManus"
> > > <mcmanus71496@m...> wrote:
> > > > The correct URL of the 1980 Bahrain map is:
> > > > http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/bahrain.html .
> > > >
> > > > By "compounded," I assume (from your reference
> > to
> > > Ellis
> > > Island) that you mean
> > > > enlarged by the addition of fill. There are
> > > photos of part of the
> > > King Fahd
> > > > Causeway at
> > > http://www.kingfahdbinabdulaziz.com/jpghi/f019.jpg
> > > > and at
> > > >
> > http://www.kingfahdbinabdulaziz.com/jpghi/f019.jpg
> > > .
> > > > You can see that there are a number of
> > artificial
> > > islands
> > > between the five
> > > > bridge sections. The island in question is not
> > > readily visible in
> > > these photos.
> > > >
> > > > However, the web site at
> > > > http://www.dawn.com/2005/01/14/int16.htm says
> > "An
> > > artificial
> > > island was created
> > > > halfway across the strait separating the two
> > > countries, for
> > > customs and
> > > > immigration formalities."
> > > >
> > > > ..and finally, we find an excellent photo at
> > > >
> > >
> > http://galen-frysinger.com/middle_east/bahrain28.jpg
> > > showing
> > > "the center
> > > > station" on the causeway. Quite an elaborate
> > set
> > > of border
> > > stations! Another
> > > > web site with a small version of the same photo
> > > gives the
> > > name of the island as
> > > > "Umm Al Na'san." Can anyone translate?
> > > >
> > > > Lowell G. McManus
> > > > Leesville, Louisiana, USA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "aletheiak" <aletheiak@y...>
> > > > To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 7:46 PM
> > > > Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Map site
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Jesper
> > > Nielsen"
> > > > <jesniel@i...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://snack.p.lodz.pl/~bogmilka/sp6nvk/Mapy/strony_map/maps
> > > > _maps.htm
> > > > >
> > > > > has nice maps of Märket Reef, Gibraltar,
> > divided
> > > island by
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
>
>
>
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