inserts hurriedly

--- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Lowell G. McManus"
<mcmanus71496@m...> wrote:

> Mike,
>
> I'm basing my statement on the lack of a monument at the

quadripoint in question on: (1) no monument indicated on USGS topo;

as you know
this in itself is neither here nor there

>and (2) the 1991 aerial photo that shows it located in a partially

harvested field of what looks like it might be wheat. If the
tractors, combines, or whatever were purposely avoiding a "dire
penalty" sign, I think that we could see some irregularity in the
field.

ok but you must understand it is still a presumption by you then

so please dont offer it as a fact yet
as you have done in 16342
& have reiterated albeit less confidently in 16349 & again now
even as you progressively cover your tracks by cutting the texts

you just did the same thing with the atwood initial monument last week
& it is silly to expect others to have to keep sifting your
presumptions from your facts

& the players in the field will just stop trusting you quite so much
if they have to keep pulling all your stuff apart like this

> I see no reason why there might be any federal marker at the site.

It's not a USC&GS vertical control benchmark.

ok
me too
i see no reason
but thats not the same as being sure

>This is Texas that we're talking about, so the land was never part

of the federal public domain nor of the federal public land survey.
Original patenting of land titles to private owners, as well as the
county boundary surveys, was under the purview of the General Land
Office of Texas, and I have pointed you to their files.

>
> Unfortunately, I am unable to assist with the actual content of the

county boundary files due to my extremely slow dial-up connection.
(I'm far into the country, and my phone line is relayed, modulated,
multiplexed, or whatever to such an extent that my top speed is about
26 K.) Downloading such large files would be virtually impossible.
Getting topos is hard enough. (I do plan to get satellite broadband
as soon as the new WildBlue service rolls out, now expected in second
quarter, 2005.)

ok
really running out of time now
but there is more
so please expect more comments

> I can give you an example of the contents of the Texas GLO files

found in the indexing. The 1908 plat of the Borden-Howard boundary
is at https://scandocs.glo.state.tx.us/arcmaps/pdfs/1694.pdf . The
scanned original is on a rolled piece of tracing cloth, 23.7 by 125.7
inches, at a scale of 500 varas per inch, drawn by the two county
surveyors. I estimate that it would take me 7.5 hours to download
it! Most public libraries have the broadest of broadband, so you
might be able to get it.

>
> The area in question is an odd region of Texas in which the state

GLO's land survey is a rectangular grid rotated about 15 degrees
counterclockwise from the cardinal points. The road grid follows the
survey grid. The county boundaries, on the other hand, were
specified by the legislature as north-south and east-west lines.
Nothing matches! Certainly the county boundaries were marked somehow
by their surveyors (perhaps on cadastral boundaries), else the
surveys would have had no practical purpose. Everybody already knew
that the counties were neat 30-mile rectangles.

>
> Remember that you scoured northern Virginia in vain for a marked

tertiary tripoint. That, too, is an area where county and cadastral
boundaries don't typically coincide.

>
> You might look for other Texas tertiary quadripoints that are shown

as monumented on USGS topos. I will try to assist as well. I would
expect that some of them are monumented/marked, especially in the
regions where the boundaries do conform to the state's survey grid.
I'll keep you informed.

>
> Lowell G. McManus
> Leesville, Louisiana, USA
>
>
>
> ---- Original Message -----
> From: aletheia kallos
> To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 2:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] arrowhead az Re: no mxus for xmus

after all but its ajo ho

>
>
>
>
> "Lowell G. McManus" <mcmanus71496@m...> wrote:
> Mike D. wrote:
>
> > but does unmonumented necessarily mean unmarked
> >
> > & how then do they mark or even know the county lines there

anyway

> > let alone the corners
> >
> > & please let me know if you find any better hope for any texas
> > megapoint visit to be made class a
> >
> > that is
> > one that is definitely marked
>
> I was using "unmonumented" to mean "unmarked." It would be

difficult for any

> physical mark to survive in a plowed farm field.
>
> aha then first you precluded but now you merely doubt that such

a hypothetical marker could also survive by virue of being protected
say by one of those ubiquitous uscgs signposts in its vicinity which
warn

>
> do not disturb nearby boundary marker under dire penalty etc etc
>
> &or that such a marker would not also have been designed to

withstand such an otherwise obvious demise as you describe

>
> & therefore that it couldnt exist
>
> or do i misread you in this
>
>
>
> & being so far unable to follow all your protocols here in

surprise tho i will keep trying i cant yet see what you are talking
about in regard to plats surveys notes etc

>
> but since you can access them maybe you could describe how

these 4 county boundary descriptions describe this megapoint

>
> & maybe you could find some mention in any of the 256 of these

county boundary descriptions of any boundary markers &or multipoint
markers of any kind

>
> for otherwise you appear to be predicting a complete washout of

texas tertiary markers not only for the megapoints but for everything

>
> & moreover you seem to be indicating that these boundaries were

surveyed but never durably marked

>
> yikes
>
> but can that be what you mean
>
> or its consequences
>
> for perhaps i am merely racing too far ahead while actually

lagging too far behind you

>
> There might be signage on the
> nearby highway. There seems to be a change of pavement color

at about the right

> place to the north in the aerial photo.
>
> The General Land Office of the State of Texas has most of

its "County Boundary

> Files" (usually including original plats and field notes) on-

line in PDF format.

> Go to

http://wwwdb.glo.state.tx.us/central/arcmaps/ArcMapsLookup.cfm ,
select

> the name of the county in the upper drop-down box,

select "County Boundary" in

> the lower scroll box, ignore all of the parameters in between,

then click the

> "Search" button. You'll get an index to all boundary files for

that county. In

> that index, you can click "More Details..." on each item for

dates, surveyor's

> names, etc. The drawback is that these are huge files suitable

for broadband

> only.
>
> Lowell G. McManus
> Leesville, Louisiana, USA