Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re: extraterritoriality
Date: Oct 26, 2004 @ 19:49
Author: Lowell G. McManus ("Lowell G. McManus" <mcmanus71496@...>)
Prev Post in Topic Next [All Posts]
Prev Post in Time Next
----- Original Message -----
From: "aletheiak" <aletheiak@...>
To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 1:56 PM
Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: extraterritoriality
>
>
> so i think it is time we recognized that guantanamo isnt really
> extraterritorial territory of the usa
> but normal territorial territory of the usa
>
> & no matter that the cuus treaty looks different from other treaties
> & is based on a bogus premise
> for this territory is still under actual united states sovereignty
> plain & simple
>
> & we can yak on about how american law applies differently in
> guantanamo than say in key west
> but that is just a peculiarity of american law
> & not the result of a distinction in the sovereign statuses of those
> places
>
> & of course sovereignty is a bogus concept to begin with
> but extraterritorial sovereignty is more bogus than usual or necessary
>
> --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Lowell G. McManus"
> <mcmanus71496@m...> wrote:
> > Apart from leased military bases and other facilities,
> extraterritoriality has
> > little to do with territory (else it would be territoriality), but
> rather with
> > persons and activities. It is best to think of it as
> extraterritorial
> > JURISDICTION--that is, a nation's jurisdiction over its own
> citizens beyond its
> > own territory.
> >
> > The classic 19th-century examples would include the "spheres of
> influence" and
> > other trade treaties that various Western nations had in the
> Orient. For
> > example, by treaty with Japan, the USA had extraterritorial
> jurisdiction over
> > all of its citizens in that country until 1894. Britain and the
> USA had similar
> > jurisdiction by treaty with China until 1943. In the American
> case, US consuls
> > were empowered to hold "consular courts" and apply US law to both
> criminal and
> > civil matters concerning Americans in those countries where
> treaties allowed it.
> >
> > Since this sort of thing is rather imperialistic and implies that
> some sovereign
> > nations are superior to others, it has largely fallen from favor in
> the modern
> > world.
> >
> > Lowell G. McManus
> > Leesville, Louisiana, USA
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Peter Smaardijk" <smaardijk@y...>
> > To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 9:42 AM
> > Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: extraterritoriality
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > OK, thanks. So what _is_ extraterritoriality exactly, and where
> can
> > > it be found (the various Vatican buildings in and around Rome,
> > > probably - but are there other examples?)
> > > Peter
> > >
> > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Joachim Duester"
> > > <jduester@p...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I beg to differ from Wolfgang's defininition of
> > > eytraterritoriality.
> > > >
> > > > A distinction has to be made between sovereignty over territory
> > > (which
> > > > is a matter of international public law or "law of nations") and
> > > > ownership (which is a matter of private law). A piece of land
> owned
> > > by
> > > > one country as a private owner in another country does not
> > > > automatically enjoy extraterritorial privileges. For a piece of
> > > > territory to enjoy extraterritoral privileges, it is not
> necessary
> > > to
> > > > be under the private ownership of another subject of
> international
> > > law.
> > > >
> > > > The embassy of one state in another state is NOT
> extraterritorial
> > > > territory, and it does not matter in this respect at all
> whether the
> > > > embassy plot/building has been purchased or only rented in the
> host
> > > > country. The special privileges and immunities enjoyed by
> embassy
> > > > premises are not the result of extraterritoriality but are
> > > privileges
> > > > granted under the Vienna Convention or other treaties to that
> > > effect.
> > > > These privileges apply regardless whether the embassy grounds
> are
> > > > owned by the sending state or are only rented from a local
> owner or
> > > > the host government.
> > > >
> > > > Joachim
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Wolfgang Schaub"
> > > > <Wolfgang.Schaub@c...> wrote:
> > > > > Hello, I am new to the group. En/exclaves are territories
> owned by
> > > > another
> > > > > country in the sense that they form part of the parent state
> > > territory.
> > > > > Otherwise properties owned by a country on the territory of
> > > another are
> > > > > extra-territorial entities. Examples: All foreign embassies,
> > > > Castelgandolfo
> > > > > castle of the Vatican inside Italy, the monument for Latour
> > > > d'Auvergne owned
> > > > > by France inside Germany, and many others.
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>