so i think it is time we recognized that guantanamo isnt really
extraterritorial territory of the usa
but normal territorial territory of the usa
& no matter that the cuus treaty looks different from other treaties
& is based on a bogus premise
for this territory is still under actual united states sovereignty
plain & simple
& we can yak on about how american law applies differently in
guantanamo than say in key west
but that is just a peculiarity of american law
& not the result of a distinction in the sovereign statuses of those
places
& of course sovereignty is a bogus concept to begin with
but extraterritorial sovereignty is more bogus than usual or necessary
--- In
BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Lowell G. McManus"
<mcmanus71496@m...> wrote:
> Apart from leased military bases and other facilities,
extraterritoriality has
> little to do with territory (else it would be territoriality), but
rather with
> persons and activities. It is best to think of it as
extraterritorial
> JURISDICTION--that is, a nation's jurisdiction over its own
citizens beyond its
> own territory.
>
> The classic 19th-century examples would include the "spheres of
influence" and
> other trade treaties that various Western nations had in the
Orient. For
> example, by treaty with Japan, the USA had extraterritorial
jurisdiction over
> all of its citizens in that country until 1894. Britain and the
USA had similar
> jurisdiction by treaty with China until 1943. In the American
case, US consuls
> were empowered to hold "consular courts" and apply US law to both
criminal and
> civil matters concerning Americans in those countries where
treaties allowed it.
>
> Since this sort of thing is rather imperialistic and implies that
some sovereign
> nations are superior to others, it has largely fallen from favor in
the modern
> world.
>
> Lowell G. McManus
> Leesville, Louisiana, USA
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Smaardijk" <smaardijk@y...>
> To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 9:42 AM
> Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: extraterritoriality
>
>
> >
> >
> > OK, thanks. So what _is_ extraterritoriality exactly, and where
can
> > it be found (the various Vatican buildings in and around Rome,
> > probably - but are there other examples?)
> > Peter
> >
> > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Joachim Duester"
> > <jduester@p...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I beg to differ from Wolfgang's defininition of
> > eytraterritoriality.
> > >
> > > A distinction has to be made between sovereignty over territory
> > (which
> > > is a matter of international public law or "law of nations") and
> > > ownership (which is a matter of private law). A piece of land
owned
> > by
> > > one country as a private owner in another country does not
> > > automatically enjoy extraterritorial privileges. For a piece of
> > > territory to enjoy extraterritoral privileges, it is not
necessary
> > to
> > > be under the private ownership of another subject of
international
> > law.
> > >
> > > The embassy of one state in another state is NOT
extraterritorial
> > > territory, and it does not matter in this respect at all
whether the
> > > embassy plot/building has been purchased or only rented in the
host
> > > country. The special privileges and immunities enjoyed by
embassy
> > > premises are not the result of extraterritoriality but are
> > privileges
> > > granted under the Vienna Convention or other treaties to that
> > effect.
> > > These privileges apply regardless whether the embassy grounds
are
> > > owned by the sending state or are only rented from a local
owner or
> > > the host government.
> > >
> > > Joachim
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Wolfgang Schaub"
> > > <Wolfgang.Schaub@c...> wrote:
> > > > Hello, I am new to the group. En/exclaves are territories
owned by
> > > another
> > > > country in the sense that they form part of the parent state
> > territory.
> > > > Otherwise properties owned by a country on the territory of
> > another are
> > > > extra-territorial entities. Examples: All foreign embassies,
> > > Castelgandolfo
> > > > castle of the Vatican inside Italy, the monument for Latour
> > > d'Auvergne owned
> > > > by France inside Germany, and many others.
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >