further developments in the chase or chases
an inconvenient but inescapable new fact has emerged
the mdvawv latitude given at the corner corner would place the
tripoint some distance south of the extant vawv survey terminus
rather than north of it
as it actually must be
oops
so it is back to the paper topos for a double check of the exact
coords
& not only for mdvawv but for dcmdvan too while we are at it
both of which fortunately can be done with a single visit to the
usgs map store conveniently located only a few miles from dcmdvan
so it now appears reston will be not just an optional but a
necessary preliminary
whether converging on the all day gala there saturday the 9th or not
for without the best available target points to home in on the gps
approaches to the tripoints will be meaningless
of course it is quite possible that the corner corner readings were
correctly & accurately obtained in the first place
& then we will really be in trouble
at least at mdvawv
but first it behooves us to try to clear up this apparent
contradiction & at least confirm if not correct these data
& another reason to recheck the paper topo for dcmdvan is that doing
so will also enable us at the same time to measure & compute the
distance from marker wm1 to the tripoint as also shown there
doing this at topozone btw gives a distance of about 49 feet
but if we can do it more accurately i think we must
as both these tripoints are believed to be not merely represented
but actually defined by the usgs depictions
--- In
BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "aletheiak" <aletheiak@y...>
wrote:
> --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Lowell G. McManus"
> <mcmanus71496@m...> wrote:
> > You have the survey in-hand. Good.
> >
> > If the end of the line on the river bank is unmonumented, but
> merely an
> > extrapolation of two other monumented points, is there any
> reason to believe
> > that the segment is officially intended to terminate there and
> not to extend
> > onward to Maryland, wherever that may happen be?
>
> yes
> i think the reasons to believe it are
> that this point is actually specified as the terminal point of the
> survey
> & also that it is shown as the triple intersection of the veggie
line
> & the water line with the terminal vawv segment
> as projected thru the final 2 markers from the previous turn point
>
> & the reasons to not believe it are
> they may not have known what they were doing
> in failing to close on the low water mark
> or else
> like us
> they may not have been able to figure out where the low water
> mark falls
>
>
> >
> > Lowell G. McManus
> > Leesville, Louisiana, USA
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "aletheiak" <aletheiak@y...>
> > To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 1:04 AM
> > Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: dcmdvan & mdvawv retries
> continued
> >
> >
> > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Lowell G.
> McManus"
> > > <mcmanus71496@m...> wrote:
> > > > I'd love to be there, but I can't get away.
> > > >
> > > > I think it's good to carry forward any and all notions of
how
> to
> > > extend VAWV to
> > > > the tripoint. Sometimes, there's nothing like a personal
> on-site
> > > look to make
> > > > the best solution obvious.
> > > >
> > > > Are you aware that the 1997 survey is recorded in the
> > > courthouse land books of
> > > > both Loudoun and Jefferson counties?
> > >
> > > thanx
> > > & yes i am aware that a copy of the survey presently in my
> hands
> > > has also been deposited in both those places
> > > but i find it hard to conceive how further extrapolations
could
> have
> > > been made & registered there that are not in the survey
> > >
> > > as it is
> > > the unmarked terminal point of the survey depicted at the
> edge of
> > > the river is already an extrapolation from the last 2
> monumented
> > > points
> > >
> > > still it might be a good idea to poke around these
> courthouses
> > > in the absence of anything better
> > >
> > > my mathematical tries at zeroing in on the 4 potential target
> > > areas are proving incredibly complicated too
> > >
> > > time for a breather perhaps
> > >
> > >
> > > It just might say that the last bearing
> > > > continues on to the Maryland boundary. If so, your
> surveyor's
> > > marker at the
> > > > river's edge might not be intended as terminal, just the only
> > > practical place to
> > > > put it. Of course, you probably covered all of this in your
> > > confabs with the
> > > > surveyor.
> > > >
> > > > Lowell G. McManus
> > > > Leesville, Louisiana, USA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "aletheia kallos" <aletheiak@y...>
> > > > To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 2:49 PM
> > > > Subject: [BoundaryPoint] dcmdvan & mdvawv retries
> continued
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > so
> > > > > to sum up & then proceed
> > > > >
> > > > > the best available & indeed authoritative positions
> > > > > if not of these 2 tripoints themselves
> > > > > then at least of the low water marks convergent upon
> > > > > them
> > > > > is as presented by usgs mapping
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=18&n=4311741.00001324
> > > &e=316164.999969563&datum=nad83
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=18&n=4355975&e=26557
> > > 4&s=50&size=l&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25
> > > > >
> > > > > so the geocoords need to be carefully lifted from the
> > > > > paper copies of these topos
> > > > > & then used as the primary gps targets
> > > > > for the monument based alignments to then pan across
> &
> > > > > home in on
> > > > >
> > > > > & we need to hope mike schwartz has a gps receiver
> > > > >
> > > > > or that someone who does also attends
> > > > >
> > > > > or can you confirm that right off mike
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > also
> > > > > special to brian
> > > > > can you confirm that the superfine coords you give for
> > > > > these points at the corner corner
> > > > > namely
> > > > > dcmdvan
> > > > > nlat 38d56m03s2 x wlong 77d07m12s6 nad27
> > > > > &
> > > > > mdvawv
> > > > > nlat 39d19m16s1 x wlong 77d43m09s4 nad27
> > > > > are the same ones you pulled from the paper topos
> > > > > & that your tenths of seconds are as significant as
> > > > > they appear to be
> > > > >
> > > > > as i recall
> > > > > you took special care with all these at the time
> > > > >
> > > > > & i am inclined to base the tries directly upon them
> > > > > since i already believe they are as right as can be
> > > > > rather than bothering to check or redo your work
> > > > >
> > > > > but i would appreciate any confirmation
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > & to continue
> > > > >
> > > > > the dcmdvan alignment will be straightforward &
> > > > > attainable within centimeters if we find the marker
> > > > >
> > > > > as i still believe we will
> > > > >
> > > > > & nothing more needs to be said about it til we try it
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > but the mdvawv alignment is still unknown
> > > > > & perhaps unknowable
> > > > >
> > > > > & we also dont know what authority we could possibly
> > > > > consult that would be better than ourselves & our own
> > > > > best judgments about it
> > > > >
> > > > > so far we have 4 choices for the bearing of the
> > > > > tripointing stitch from the extant vawv terminus
> > > > > each of which will produce a different line
> > > > > all of them presumably of slightly different lengths
> > > > > & each leading to a different putative tripoint
> > > > > position
> > > > >
> > > > > but we should probably carry all of these forward
> > > > > & be open to possible others as well
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > the bearing of the extant legal vawv terminal segment
> > > > > is ne36d40m22s
> > > > > & i believe it continues to be the leading candidate
> > > > >
> > > > > the bearing of a line running perpendicular to the
> > > > > bank appears to be roughly ne10 degrees
> > > > >
> > > > > the bearing of a line running perpendicular to the
> > > > > river center line appears to be roughly due north
> > > > >
> > > > > the bearing of a line running directly toward the
> > > > > visible ridge continuation above the maryland bank
> > > > > appears to be roughly nw10 degrees
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > & there are still a few more numbers i should be able
> > > > > to crunch
> > > > > so as to tie the topo based coords in with the survey
> > > > > based coords
> > > > >
> > > > > & that should be revealing but will take a while
> > > > >
> > > > > so please stand by
> > > > > &or chime in with anything else
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > of course all four stitch candidates will ultimately
> > > > > head off into the white water in different directions
> > > > >
> > > > > but we could follow them at least to the edge of the
> > > > > water & then project them mentally from there
> > > > >
> > > > > for the time being at least
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > both tries are still looking real for columbus week
> > > > > give or take a few days
> > > > >
> > > > > any further additions corrections comments help
> > > > > attendance etc etc would of course be appreciated
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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