your source could have been the same as the fotw site
which appears to claim the same 4 demises for papal avignon
as you did
however misguidedly for vexillology in the case of the first 3
but i must say these satellite claves you mention do appear to
present a novel & promising direction for further search
if we could but find their individual dates of clavic inception &
demise
because
for anything not impregnable
there is some likelihood of demise at the time of each known
invasion
as well as some likelihood of ensuing resurrection
or at least they do appear to stand a real chance of satisfying the
quest for an exception
to a rule that only keeps looking more impregnable
so please do carry on in this direction if you can
i would rejoice to see a true resurrection
as i believe we all would at this point
--- In
BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "L. A. Nadybal"
<lnadybal@c...> wrote:
> I'll have to dig a little for my source, but I have it. I believe
> three three pieces were separate - Avignon perhaps wasn't
sacked, but
> the other two contained just tiny little villages.
> LN
>
>
> --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "aletheiak"
<aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> > often attacked but never sacked
> > evidently because the papal palace itself was impregnable
> >
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avignon#Avignon_under_the_Popes
> >
> > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "aletheiak"
> > <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> > > nice try
> > > arty pants
> > > but what is your source for the claims of actual demises in
> > 1663
> > > & 1668 & 1768
> > >
> > > there were invasions for sure
> > > & possibly even military occupations in these years &or
others
> > > i would not disagree
> > >
> > > but all these encyclopedias & others
> > > http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/C/ComtatV1e.asp
> > > http://reference.allrefer.com/encyclopedia/C/ComtatVe.html
> > >
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Comtat-Venaissin
> > > agree that this clave actually remained under papal control
> > > continuously between 1274 & 1791
> > > & that its only actual political demise occurred in 1791
> > >
> > > perhaps there is room for a difference of opinion in this
case
> > > depending on the particulars of the invasions &or
occupations
> > > of which i am admittedly unaware
> > > but i havent found any hard evidence of the demises you
claim
> > >
> > > anyway
> > > please carry on
> > > if you can
> > >
> > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "L. A. Nadybal"
> > > <lnadybal@c...> wrote:
> > > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "aletheiak"
> > > <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> > > > > strut your stuff len
> > > >
> > > > OK "smarty pants" - here goes: this is Nr. 1.
> > > >
> > > > The Comtat Venaissin is limited by the rivers Rhône and
> > > Durance and
> > > > the Mount Ventoux. It is named after its former capital city
> > > Venasque
> > > > (Vindascinum), now a village of about 600 inhabitants.
> > > >
> > > > In the XIIIth century, the Comtat Venaissin belonged to
> > > Alphonse de
> > > > Poitiers (1220-1271), a Capetian prince, son of king of
> > France
> > > Louis
> > > > VIII. Some authorities say it was ceded to the pope in
1218
> > by
> > > > Raymond VII, count of Toulouse. Alphonse (or Philip the
> > > Bold??)
> > > > bequeathed (or ceded??)the Comtat to the Holy See,
which
> > > incorporated
> > > > it in 1274. On 19 June 1348, countess Jeanne
(1326-1382),
> > > better known
> > > > as queen Jeanne de Naples, sold Avignon to pope
Clement
> > VI,
> > > who
> > > > incorporated it into Comtat. Avignon and the Comtat
> > Venaissin
> > > then
> > > > formed the 'Papal enclave', which developed
independently
> > > from France.
> > > > The enclave, which was geographically detached from
other
> > > parts of
> > > > the Papal states, itself had an exclave to its east called
> > > "Darbous".
> > > >
> > > > The economical and cultural development of the enclave
> > > encouraged the
> > > > kings of France to attempt to grab it. The enclave was
taken
> > > over by
> > > > the French in 1663, again in 1668 and yet again between
> > > 1768-1774. In
> > > > 1791, the bourgeois and the merchants of Avignon
promoted
> > > the
> > > > incorporation of the enclave to France, which was
effective on
> > > 14
> > > > September 1791. The Holy See recognized the annexion
only
> > > in 1814.
> > > >
> > > > So, here we have an enclave and it's satellite exclave that
> > > "came and
> > > > went" at least three times.
> > > >
> > > > For a map - see my site:
> > > >
> > >
> >
http://exclave.info/former/papalstates/papalfrance/papalfrance.ht
> > > ml