all multipoints are points of true joint sovereignty
but they are just points rather than actually places
they are located in places
& they are often even located in monuments
& many people confuse the places & the monuments for the
actual multipoints
but points & places are not the same thing
--- In
BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "L. A. Nadybal"
<lnadybal@c...> wrote:
> Is the point a place where there is true joint sovereignty?
> LN
>
>
> --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, Michael Kaufman
> <mikekaufman79@y...> wrote:
> > First you talked of a pene example. Which could mean
> > "pene-enclave example" as well as "almost an example."
> > So this is how it relates.
> > Second, when I speak of the practical sense I mean you
> > can not access Jungholz from the rest of Austria with
> > the whole of your body staying in Austria. You can't
> > go down the mountain that way anyway.
> >
> > --- aletheiak <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> >
> > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com,
> > > "mikekaufman79"
> > > <mikekaufman79@y...> wrote:
> > > > Pene-enclave can mean almost an enclave in the
> > > sense of the
> > > boundary
> > > > lines almost come to a close but then widen back
> > > out. It can
> > > also
> > > > mean almost an enclave, meaning practical
> > > inaccessibility.
> > >
> > > this & its various other ambiguities are why i avoid
> > > using that
> > > word myself
> > >
> > > > From the first interpretation, Jungholz is every
> > > bit as much an
> > > > enclave as it is not an enclave (but yes a
> > > geographical pene-
> > > > enclave). You can draw an infinite amount of
> > > uninterrupted
> > > lines
> > > > through the quadripoint from Austria to Austria,
> > > but you can do
> > > the
> > > > same from Germany to Germany.
> > > > Now of course you can say that something which is
> > > just as
> > > much an
> > > > enclave as it is a pene-enclave in and of it self
> > > means it's a
> > > pene-
> > > > enclave.
> > >
> > > yes of course you can
> > > but why actually say it
> > >
> > > & what does it mean
> > >
> > > & can you relate it to any of the discussion
> > >
> > > > From the second interpretation, it is a
> > > pene-enclave as it is not
> > > > possible to reach Jungholz via the rest of Austria
> > > without ever
> > > > leaving Austria. Since it is one point wide on
> > > top of a mountain.
> > >
> > > forgive me
> > > i am not trying to be cloudy
> > > & i see lowell thinks he may see & agree with this
> > > so i will at least stand by for clearance
> > > but this too makes no sense to me
> > >
> > > if you simply move across the quadripoint position
> > > wherever it is actually located
> > > you are in fact partly reaching one part of austria
> > > before fully
> > > leaving the other
> > > & it is impossible not to do so
> > >
> > > & you are especially reaching one part of germany
> > > without
> > > leaving the other
> > > since germany has only one contiguous part there
> > > anyway by any
> > > definition
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "aletheiak"
> > > <aletheiak@y...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > still i must concede
> > > > > that is an extremely nice pene example
> > > > > & indeed our closest thing to a real example yet
> > > > > so it shouldnt just be dismissed out of hand
> > > > > even if it might be rationalized away as somehow
> > > exceptional
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "L. A.
> > > Nadybal"
> > > > > <lnadybal@c...> wrote:
> > > > > > With the Anschluß of Austria by Germany,
> > > Jungholz
> > > > > disappeared as the
> > > > > > two countries became one; and then, after
> > > WWII, it
> > > reappeared.
> > > > > Now
> > > > > > don't go splitting hairs about it being "only"
> > > a pene-. I know,
> > > I
> > > > > > know, I know.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > LN
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com,
> > > "aletheiak"
> > > > > <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Peter
> > >
> > > Smaardijk"
> > > > > > > <smaardijk@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > it is unlikely that defunct claves would
> > > ever be
> > > > deliberately
> > > > > > > > > reconstituted if it could be avoided
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > rather the general drift is almost
> > > entirely in the
> > > opposite
> > > > > > > > direction
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Baarle-Hertog was once just a set of
> > > > > > > > provincial enclaves. But they
> > > reconstituted those as
> > > > > > > international
> > > > > > > > ones when Belgium became independent.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > thats true
> > > > > > > tho what i meant by reconstituted
> > > > > > > is not just continued in a new format
> > > > > > > for that seems common enough
> > > > > > > but actually brought back from extinction
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > & i cant think of a single instance of this
> > > at the moment
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > can anyone
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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