i should have mentioned
this is a cia map circa 2002
but hard to find
so possibly disavowed later
& i dont know whether to prefer the fresher & coarser cia
intelligence to the older & finer middlebury data
but tho the area on this cia map corresponding to the sexicountry
quadrilateral you have identified on the middlebury map is a bit
harder to see clearly
your polygon appears here either to still be scarcely quadrilateral
or else it could perhaps be only triangular now
if the malaysia claim doesnt in fact outreach the combined brph
claim in the northwest
there are 2 other important differences between these maps tho
first
the cia has not acknowledged the vietnam petroleum block claim
that we found so peculiar & offputting in the middlebury map
& indeed it is a relief to find it absent
& second
the cia has added the hypothetical but possibly most significant
eez outline at a distance labeled
200nm from coastal states
& the resulting tetradecagonal or pentadecagonal concave
arcuate hole that is left in the middle of this outline is of course
hypothetical everyones land
& exciting to encounter here in the middle of the spratlys
where the sovereign rights claims of so many as 6 countries
already overlap anyway
exciting because pandominium
or lets call it omnidominium to put a softer edge on it
is an easier sell wherever multidominium is already envisaged
but the main consequence of this new line & concept here for
polygon freaks is that
because its conventional legality more than trumps the
unconventional eez claims of both brunei & the philippines
as well as the conventional but differently based territorial sea
claims of malaysia
it is in fact the only line on the map will full multilateral coherency
so our 6country fruit salad polygon must not only include this line
but must actually begin with it
since what is outside this hole is not everyones land but surely
someones land
& the polygon thus becomes actually a 7country fruit salad hole
or mold including first & foremost everyones land
for only the tiniest southeast corner of your polygon
if indeed any of it
is truncated by the 200nm from coastal states limit
the difficulty here again
just as at the northwest corner of the cia version of the polygon
is in discerning whether there has in fact been any truncation of
the middlebury version of the polygon here
but evaluating both these difficult northwest & southeast corners
as optically equal here
since they do at least appear rather balanced if not perfectly
symmetrical & isosceles
it appears your sexinational quadrilateral
has become a septinational polygon
tho whether quadrilateral or triangle or pentagon isnt clear
in any case i cant stop marveling at how perfectly harmonious &
isosceles this completely fortuitous multi right polygon looks in
any or all of its geometric permutations
when viewed from the base in the northeast facing the vertex in
the southwest
--- In
BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "aletheiak"
<aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> on this map the putative sexicountry claim area has a different
> shape
> http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/images/schinasea.jpg
>
> but note here also the differences between the 12nm territorial
> sea claim limits & 200nm eez claim limits
> both as authorized by unclos
> & the unauthorized claim limits beyond 200nm
>
> so whatever the true shape of the sexicountry claim area
> it is not just apples & oranges but full blown fruit salad
>
> --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "aletheiak"
> <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> > right
> > if it exists
> > & whatever it means
> > this is a 6country quadrilateral rather than a 6country
pentagon
> >
> > & thus it has only 24 countrysides rather than 30
> > oops
> >
> > but the natures of the overlapping claims
> > not to mention its megapoint corners
> > are apparently quite various & heterogeneous
> > & not well understood
> > by me at least
> >
> > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, Michael Kaufman
> > <mikekaufman79@y...> wrote:
> > > Ok, if CN, VN, and TW claim all of the islands and
> > > water then that makes sense. So a 5-country-claimed
> > > reef. And then we do have that small piece of ocean
> > > as a 6-country-claimed region. Of course it is not
> > > pentagonal but rather quadrilateral since it only has
> > > 4 sides.
> > >
> > > --- aletheiak <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, Michael
> > > > Kaufman
> > > > <mikekaufman79@y...> wrote:
> > > > > The map in the link says nothing about Taiwan and
> > > > > Louisa Reef as far as I can see.
> > > >
> > > > true but taiwan claims all the spratlys
> > > > with no known exceptions
> > > > just as do china & vietnam
> > > >
> > > > so i have assumed each of their claims includes
> > > > louisa reef
> > > >
> > > > & malaysia & brunei lay explicit claim to louisa
> > > > also
> > > > but without claiming all the other spratlys
> > > >
> > > > i dont know what the vietnam petroleum block claim
> > > > is or means
> > > >
> > > > but there is no reason to suppose it limits the
> > > > vietnamese claim
> > > > to all the spratlys
> > > > & there are many reefs & shoals beyond it with
> > > > vietnamese
> > > > names
> > > > apparently including the vietnamese occupied pigeon
> > > > reef
> > > >
> > > > the small pentagonal ocean area you identify below
> > > > as claimed
> > > > by 5 countries is more likely actually claimed by
> > > > all 6
> > > > presumably including taiwan
> > > > since maritime claims follow from land claims
> > > >
> > > > neither the map nor list purports to be exhaustive
> > > > so not every claim to every spratly is shown &or
> > > > mentioned
> > > >
> > > > & of course not every claim to every spratly is
> > > > backed up by actual
> > > > occupation
> > > >
> > > > in fact most of them are deserted
> > > >
> > > > end inserts
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > And it looks like it
> > > > > falls outside the Vietnam Petroleum Block Claim.
> > > > On
> > > > > the basis of the map alone, it looks like China,
> > > > > Brunei, and Malaysia claim it. There is one small
> > > > > ocean area - China, Brunei, Malaysia, Philippines,
> > > > > Vietnam - with no depicted islands or reefs.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- aletheiak <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > tho the philippines do claim several of the
> > > > spratly
> > > > > > islands
> > > > > > & tho all 6 bncnmyphtwvn countries claim at
> > > > least 1
> > > > > > spratly each
> > > > > > the philippines dont claim louisa reef as the
> > > > > > bncnmytwvn 5 do
> > > > > >
> > > > > > moreover
> > > > > > since none of the other individual spratlys is
> > > > > > claimed by more
> > > > > > than 4 of the 6 spratly countries
> > > > > > & since no other place in the world is claimed
> > > > by
> > > > > > more than 3
> > > > > > countries
> > > > > > louisa reef stands alone as the hottest real
> > > > estate
> > > > > > on earth
> > > > > > &or under the sea
> > > > > >
> > > > > > for the basis of my arithmetic
> > > > > > please refer again to message 14049
> > > > > > & especially to the color coded annotated map in
> > > > the
> > > > > > link there
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, Michael
> > > > > > Kaufman
> > > > > > <mikekaufman79@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > > Why not 6 country with Philippines?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- aletheiak <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > yes we have had this report at least since
> > > > > > message
> > > > > > > > 14049
> > > > > > > > when i still imagined she was only a
> > > > 4country
> > > > > > reef
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > see under louisa in alphabetical list of
> > > > > > spratlys in
> > > > > > > > the middlebury
> > > > > > > > link there
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > only later did it dawn on me that the
> > > > bruneian
> > > > > > claim
> > > > > > > > to her was
> > > > > > > > just as real as the 4 others
> > > > > > > > despite its being unique in not
> > > > acknowledging
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > reef as dry
> > > > > > > > land but only as maritime territory
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > but i generally prefer my theories as spare
> > > > &
> > > > > > lean
> > > > > > > > as possible
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > "Lowell G.
> > > > > > > > McManus"
> > > > > > > > <mcmanus71496@m...> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Each theory is as good as the other.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Do we know for fact that the lighthouse or
> > > > > > > > navigation beacon
> > > > > > > > was Malaysian, or
> > > > > > > > > is that theory too?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Lowell G. McManus
> > > > > > > > > Leesville, Louisiana, USA
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > From: "aletheiak" <aletheiak@y...>
> > > > > > > > > To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 1:47 PM
> > > > > > > > > Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Possible
> > > > > > BNCNMYTWVN
> > > > > > > > 5-Country Reef and Obelisk
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > well no need to postulate a greater
> > > > mystery
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > order to solve
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > lesser one
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > & i think a single 5country obelisk in
> > > > the
> > > > > > sea
> > > > > > > > is plenty for the
> > > > > > > > time
> > > > > > > > > > being
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > the so called lighthouse or beacon
> > > > > > > > > > whether it was mounted atop the obelisk
> > > > or
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > > could easily have just been a small
> > > > > > reflector or
> > > > > > > > glow type
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > the lawn of my estate here on cream hill
> > > > is
> > > > > > > > littered with solar
> > > > > > > > > > powered night lights comprised of 6inch
> > > > > > plastic
> > > > > > > > cubes that
> > > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > > stick into the ground
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > & the 2 blocklike forms you have spotted
> > > > on
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > reef could
> > > > > > > > easily
> > > > > > > > > > have come from the top of the single
> > > > known
> > > > > > > > obelisk
> > > > > > > > > > the height of which does indeed appear
> > > > to
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > been
> > > > > > > > reduced
> > > > > > > > > > as detailed below
> > > > > > > > > > by the necessary 15 or 20 percent to
> > > > account
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > > > give or take a beacon
> > > > > > > > > > & were perhaps shot down by the same
> > > > chinese
> > > > > > > > gunboat
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > perhaps shot out the light
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > leaving stone markers to claim
> > > > sovereignty
> > > > > > over
> > > > > > > > islets
> > > > > > > > > > &or destroying such markers to deny it
> > > > > > > > > > has been a fixture thruout the china
> > > > seas
> > > > > > since
> > > > > > > > 1895
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > after malaysia destroyed the chinese
> > > > marker
> > > > > > here
> > > > > > > > > > it seems to me
> > > > > > > > > > the least china could have done was
> > > > destroy
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > malaysian
> > > > > > > > light
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > anyway so little for my theory
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > __________________________________
> > > > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > > > Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do
> > > > we.
> > > > > > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________
> > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping.
> > > > > http://shopping.yahoo.com/backtoschool
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
> > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail