so i still think i was right to say louisa reef with 5 claimants is the
hottest real estate on earth
tho not necessarily the hottest real estate under the sea
if mikes putative 6country pentagon holds up

the problem with the maritime claims however is that since the
sea follows the land
you cant know for sure who really owns the sea
even theoretically
until you sort out who really owns the islands in it

--- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Lowell G. McManus"
<mcmanus71496@m...> wrote:

> I agree that the map at
> http://cat.middlebury.edu/southchinasea/macand/
> shows Louisa Reef outside the Vietnamese claim, but not

outside the "Taiwanese"

> claim.
>
> The CIA says at
> http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/pg.html
> that "all of the Spratly Islands are claimed by China, Taiwan,

and Vietnam."

>
> The map shows it within the "China Claim." This Chinese

claim is apparently

> based on ages of seasonal visits by fishermen from Hainan

(although they were

> probably not the only ones to do so). When the occupying

Japanese were defeated

> in 1945, the Republic of China (the only China at the time)

established a

> garrison of Marines on Itu Aba, the largest of the Spratlys (90

acres), which

> has been maintained more or less continuously ever since. In

1949, the

> communists took control of the mainland portions of China

and established the

> People's Republic of China, while the ROC retained Taiwan,

the Pescadores,

> Quemoy, Matsu, etc. Of course both the PRC and the ROC

claimed all of China,

> and the PRC later established its own activities on several of

the Spratlys.

>
> Thus, both the ROC and the PRC are in the Spratlys, and

apparently both claim to

> be the successor to whatever age-old claim China might have.
>
> Lowell G. McManus
> Leesville, Louisiana, USA
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Kaufman" <mikekaufman79@y...>
> To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 8:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Possible BNCNMYTWVN

5-Country Reef and Obelisk

>
>
> > The map in the link says nothing about Taiwan and
> > Louisa Reef as far as I can see. And it looks like it
> > falls outside the Vietnam Petroleum Block Claim. On
> > the basis of the map alone, it looks like China,
> > Brunei, and Malaysia claim it. There is one small
> > ocean area - China, Brunei, Malaysia, Philippines,
> > Vietnam - with no depicted islands or reefs.
> >
> > --- aletheiak <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> >
> > > tho the philippines do claim several of the spratly
> > > islands
> > > & tho all 6 bncnmyphtwvn countries claim at least 1
> > > spratly each
> > > the philippines dont claim louisa reef as the
> > > bncnmytwvn 5 do
> > >
> > > moreover
> > > since none of the other individual spratlys is
> > > claimed by more
> > > than 4 of the 6 spratly countries
> > > & since no other place in the world is claimed by
> > > more than 3
> > > countries
> > > louisa reef stands alone as the hottest real estate
> > > on earth
> > > &or under the sea
> > >
> > > for the basis of my arithmetic
> > > please refer again to message 14049
> > > & especially to the color coded annotated map in the
> > > link there
> > >
> > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, Michael
> > > Kaufman
> > > <mikekaufman79@y...> wrote:
> > > > Why not 6 country with Philippines?
> > > >
> > > > --- aletheiak <aletheiak@y...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > yes we have had this report at least since
> > > message
> > > > > 14049
> > > > > when i still imagined she was only a 4country
> > > reef
> > > > >
> > > > > see under louisa in alphabetical list of
> > > spratlys in
> > > > > the middlebury
> > > > > link there
> > > > >
> > > > > only later did it dawn on me that the bruneian
> > > claim
> > > > > to her was
> > > > > just as real as the 4 others
> > > > > despite its being unique in not acknowledging
> > > the
> > > > > reef as dry
> > > > > land but only as maritime territory
> > > > >
> > > > > but i generally prefer my theories as spare &
> > > lean
> > > > > as possible
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Lowell G.
> > > > > McManus"
> > > > > <mcmanus71496@m...> wrote:
> > > > > > Each theory is as good as the other.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Do we know for fact that the lighthouse or
> > > > > navigation beacon
> > > > > was Malaysian, or
> > > > > > is that theory too?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lowell G. McManus
> > > > > > Leesville, Louisiana, USA
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "aletheiak" <aletheiak@y...>
> > > > > > To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 1:47 PM
> > > > > > Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Possible
> > > BNCNMYTWVN
> > > > > 5-Country Reef and Obelisk
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > well no need to postulate a greater mystery
> > > in
> > > > > order to solve
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > lesser one
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > & i think a single 5country obelisk in the
> > > sea
> > > > > is plenty for the
> > > > > time
> > > > > > > being
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > the so called lighthouse or beacon
> > > > > > > whether it was mounted atop the obelisk or
> > > not
> > > > > > > could easily have just been a small
> > > reflector or
> > > > > glow type
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > the lawn of my estate here on cream hill is
> > > > > littered with solar
> > > > > > > powered night lights comprised of 6inch
> > > plastic
> > > > > cubes that
> > > > > just
> > > > > > > stick into the ground
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > & the 2 blocklike forms you have spotted on
> > > the
> > > > > reef could
> > > > > easily
> > > > > > > have come from the top of the single known
> > > > > obelisk
> > > > > > > the height of which does indeed appear to
> > > have
> > > > > been
> > > > > reduced
> > > > > > > as detailed below
> > > > > > > by the necessary 15 or 20 percent to account
> > > for
> > > > > them
> > > > > > > give or take a beacon
> > > > > > > & were perhaps shot down by the same chinese
> > > > > gunboat
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > perhaps shot out the light
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > leaving stone markers to claim sovereignty
> > > over
> > > > > islets
> > > > > > > &or destroying such markers to deny it
> > > > > > > has been a fixture thruout the china seas
> > > since
> > > > > 1895
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > after malaysia destroyed the chinese marker
> > > here
> > > > > > > it seems to me
> > > > > > > the least china could have done was destroy
> > > the
> > > > > malaysian
> > > > > light
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > anyway so little for my theory
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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