Subject: 2 vatican footnotes<br/>
Date: Apr 17, 2004 @ 08:10<br/>
Author: m06079 (&quot;m06079&quot; &lt;barbaria_longa@...&gt;)<br/>
Prev&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Post in Topic&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="13997.htm">Next</a>&emsp;[<a href="topic13994.htm">All</a> Posts]<br/>
<a href="13993.htm">Prev</a>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Post in Time&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="13995.htm">Next</a><br/>
<br/><br/>
<div id="ygrps-yiv-315430403">first <br/>
just to tie down a tangential loose end<br/>
some pix i previously overlooked <br/>
clearly showing that the outer steps of the basic colonnade<br/>
if ever there were any<br/>
as distinct from the outer steps of the propylaea <br/>
have indeed been entirely paved over <br/>
right up to the floor level of the colonnade <br/>
in at least 2 different areas <br/>
if not everywhere<br/>
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.globalgeografia.com/europa/vaticano/fig11.jpg">http://www.globalgeografia.com/europa/vaticano/fig11.jpg</a><br/>
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.globalgeografia.com/europa/vaticano/fig14.jpg">http://www.globalgeografia.com/europa/vaticano/fig14.jpg</a><br/>
<br/>
which tends to confirm that the full flight of steps in<br/>
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.globalgeografia.com/europa/vaticano/fig03b.jpg">http://www.globalgeografia.com/europa/vaticano/fig03b.jpg</a><br/>
are probably the steps of the propylaea<br/>
<br/>
but having written this<br/>
i also just received message 13991 <br/>
for which thanx lowell<br/>
tho i wont be able to see the attachment til tomorrow<br/>
but happily we clearly still have somewhere to go on this <br/>
intriguing if otherwise irrelevant detail<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
& following with translations & elucidations are some more of <br/>
the data & reasoning behind the questionable conclusion by the <br/>
same author that the propylaea are in italy<br/>
<br/>
qui <br/>
piu che in altri punti<br/>
il passaggio de sovranita non e minimamente segnalado.<br/>
<br/>
here in the open portal more than anywhere else the transition of <br/>
sovereignty isnt clearly indicated at all<br/>
<br/>
lo si puo solo dedurre dalla presenza dei tombini con la scritta <br/>
scv<br/>
fig 9<br/>
della citta del vaticano <br/>
anche se sono presenti altri con spqr<br/>
fig 10<br/>
<br/>
but it can only be inferred from the presence of metal plates in <br/>
the pavement inscribed scv for vatican city state<br/>
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.globalgeografia.com/europa/vaticano/fig09.jpg">http://www.globalgeografia.com/europa/vaticano/fig09.jpg</a><br/>
& also others in the area that are inscribed spqr<br/>
an acronym for the ancient roman senate & people<br/>
& thus presumably somehow standing for the vatican too <br/>
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.globalgeografia.com/europa/vaticano/fig10.jpg">http://www.globalgeografia.com/europa/vaticano/fig10.jpg</a><br/>
<br/>
il lastricato di travertino che segna il confine<br/>
largo circa 60cm<br/>
e in corrispondenza del filare dei plinti delle colonne esterne del <br/>
colonnato<br/>
fig 3a<br/>
mentre la planimetria firmata in commissione con evidenzia <br/>
nemmeno i due propilei confermandone lesclusione per quelli <br/>
verso l italia<br/>
<br/>
the 2 foot wide travertine pavement strip that marks the border is <br/>
in alignment with the edge of the plinths of the outer row of <br/>
columns of the basic colonnade<br/>
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.globalgeografia.com/europa/vaticano/fig03a.jpg">http://www.globalgeografia.com/europa/vaticano/fig03a.jpg</a><br/>
while the map or plan signed by the commissioners shows no <br/>
evidence of the 2 propylaea<br/>
& thus confirms that they are excluded from the vatican & belong <br/>
to italy<br/>
<br/>
durante la 4a adunanza della commission fu respinta<br/>
senza una precisa motivazione<br/>
la richiesta di momo di posizionare il cordolo di travertino al di la <br/>
delle colonne del colonnato per comprendervi i suddetti propilei<br/>
<br/>
during the 4th meeting of the commission<br/>
a request was made by a certain momo<br/>
presumably a name or acronym explained elsewhere but which <br/>
has eluded this reader<br/>
that the outer edge of the travertine be aligned with that of the <br/>
columns of the colonnade in such a way as to include the <br/>
mentioned propylaea within its outline<br/>
but this request was rejected without any clear or definite <br/>
justification<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
so <br/>
the author <br/>
who is obviously otherwise a first rate researcher & thinker<br/>
having already allowed himself to be misled by the sketchiness <br/>
of the treaty map<br/>
now evidently also mistakenly presumes for some reason that <br/>
itva had to follow the outer edge of either the basic colonnades <br/>
or the propylaea & for some reason couldnt possibly follow both <br/>
alternately<br/>
<br/>
& when he finds that one edge has necessarily been rejected & <br/>
the other accepted for the travertine prolongation <br/>
he again erroneously presumes that the edge which has been <br/>
accepted for that purpose must also necessarily delimit itva <br/>
everywhere along the full length of the outer portico <br/>
regardless of the existence of the propylaea<br/>
& even at the expense of sacrificing them to italy in his mind <br/>
<br/>
& desacralizing the symbolic gates of heaven in the process<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
so in sum<br/>
i would say <br/>
discounting the passetto gate for being an inevitability<br/>
& the audience hall for being a possible misrepresentation<br/>
& the propylaea for being a misunderstanding<br/>
the number of actually divided actual buildings on itva could still <br/>
prove to be as few as zero</div>