ok
i thought you were including all of peters & dougs stops too
which are also given below
indeed all your suggestions below presupposed & were stacked
upon theirs
& i have been responding only to the cumulative list here
rather than to some unknown selection from among them all
& when did you start leaving theirs out anyway
i admit that surprises me more than any of your other changes
but still no problem
lets just list all your stops in detail anyway
somewhere if not here
whatever they are
as pete too appears to suggest now
or there will be no actual outcome or output at all
just more garbage in & more garbage out
but once we actually know what we are actually talking about
if ever
then i am sure we could really do it some justice here at bp in
terms of precision try pointing
also
by flyby i only meant freeway or bypass miles
not airline miles
--- In
BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, Michael Kaufman
<mikekaufman79@y...> wrote:
> You are either not reading what I am writing or are
> not understanding it. MY MILEAGE IS NOT FLY-BY
> MILEAGE BUT IS ROAD DISTANCE CALCULATED VIA
MAPQUEST.
> STOP TO STOP. You are also ignoring the fact that I
> said "I was speaking concerning the stops I had my
> list." (fortunately that is below so you can read
> that too). Please reread what is in my list. You can
> rent cars in Vancouver and Bangor. The mileage IS
> 7540. That is ROAD distance, not some crude
> estimation. If you seem to be in such utter
> disbelief, why dont you actually calculate it out on
> Mapquest instead of just assuming you are right? Your
> addition of 1200 miles is completely unwarranted as it
> is ALREADY ACCOUNTED FOR. And your 700 serendipitous
> miles may be appropriate for you, but not necessarily
> for everyone else. And it is not necessary to expand
> upon the plus for the simple reasone that COMMON SENSE
> tells you hotels plus food does not come to 2460
> miles!
>
> --- m06079 <barbaria_longa@h...> wrote:
> > well whatever you may or may not have changed
> > fortunately it is all still here below to check
> >
> > & if you really do want to know the truth
> > then why not spell out & measure up your full
> > itinerary as it is
> > rather than just the approximate fly by mileages for
> > some of it
> >
> > & likewise why not actually estimate the parts you
> > cant spell out
> > rather than shrugging them off with a vague plus
> > sign
> > as such variables can be guesstimed fairly well from
> > experience
> >
> > until you do
> > i can only continue to imagine we might be talking
> > about the
> > same trip
> > & to continue to figure it very crudely as follows
> >
> > vancouver to beaver creek to hyder to vancouver is
> > 3600 miles
> >
> > vancouver to international falls to detroit to
> > niagara to estcourt to
> > campobello to bangor all direct is 4000 miles
> >
> > & tho you claim this 4000 takes account of all the
> > stops
> > i dont see how it can
> > because many of them involve substantial side trips
> >
> > indeed the dozen or so mentioned destinations that
> > are not on
> > this direct route add perhaps 1200 miles by my own
> > wild guess
> >
> > serendipity & unplanned necessity & mistakes etc add
> > perhaps
> > another 700 miles
> > or more
> >
> > so my grand total thus far is perhaps 9500 miles or
> > more
> > which may not be so very different from what you are
> > calling
> > 7540 miles plus
> > perhaps without fully realizing just how big that
> > plus must be
> >
> >
> > btw
> > last time i tried
> > it wasnt possible to rent a driveaway dropoff either
> > to or from
> > alaska
> > so that may not actually be an option for you either
> >
> > perhaps you could do it in whitehorse
> > but
> > for the same economic reasons
> > i wouldnt count on it
> >
> > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, Michael
> > Kaufman
> > <mikekaufman79@y...> wrote:
> > > No. I am not changing what I am saying here, nor
> > what
> > > you said. And I am not disagreeing with you for
> > the
> > > sake of pleasure. I am disagreeing with you for
> > the
> > > sake of truth. And I presented several options
> > for
> > > arriving at distances. One of these was to start
> > at
> > > around Beaver Creek. Another, LONGER route was to
> > > rent a car in Vancouver, drive to Beaver Creek,
> > then
> > > drive to Blaine. THIS route gives 7540 miles
> > > (finishing at Bangor). Any route starting at the
> > > vicinity of Beaver Creek would be less, as there
> > are
> > > in fact airports and car rental facilities closer
> > to
> > > Beaver Creek than Vancouver. Taking the LONGER
> > route
> > > of Vancouver to Beaver Creek to Blaine to Bangor,
> > we
> > > have 7540 + stops, hotels, food. Which still
> > isn't
> > > 10,000 miles.
> > >
> > > --- acroorca2002 <orc@o...> wrote:
> > > > ah but mike
> > > > for the sheer pleasure of disagreeing with me
> > > > you are now changing not only what i said but
> > what
> > > > you said too
> > > >
> > > > if you start from vancouver
> > > > you cant very well start from beaver creek too
> > > > can you
> > > >
> > > > & thats only a few thousand extra miles you
> > still
> > > > havent counted
> > > > yet
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > but i see now even peter
> > > > who started it all
> > > > has backed out
> > > >
> > > > & it sounds like dougs thru route wont even be
> > > > leaving the
> > > > transcanada highway
> > > >
> > > > so that may leave only you & me to actually go
> > > > border freaking
> > > >
> > > > hmm
> > > > so how about making it a tripointing expedition
> > > > after all then
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, Michael
> > > > Kaufman
> > > > <mikekaufman79@y...> wrote:
> > > > > I was speaking concerning the stops I had in
> > my
> > > > list.
> > > > > And there are quite a few national car chains
> > > > within
> > > > > range of the beginning and ending points.
> > It's
> > > > only a
> > > > > little over 110 miles from Campobello to
> > Bangor.
> > > > And
> > > > > it's only 30 miles from Blaine to Vancouver.
> > > > > (Vancouver and Bangor both have airports and
> > car
> > > > > rental facilities.) This 140+ miles plus
> > wrong
> > > > turns
> > > > > plus driving to restaurants and hotels etc,
> > sure
> > > > > doesn't come close to 2600 miles!!!
> > > > >
> > > > > --- m06079 <barbaria_longa@h...> wrote:
> > > > > > haha
> > > > > > well it is true i was high in the andes
> > > > > > thank goodness
> > > > > > but what you are now actually saying here
> > mike
> > > > at
> > > > > > minimum
> > > > > > namely
> > > > > > beginning from beaver creek of all places as
> > if
> > > > you
> > > > > > really could
> > > > > > & then skipping skagway now
> > > > > > to hyder to point roberts to international
> > falls
> > > > to
> > > > > > detroit to niagara
> > > > > > to estcourt to campobello
> > > > > > via all the other stops mentioned below by
> > > > everyone
> > > > > > but me too
> > > > > > & within the terms of the actual 2 week tour
> > > > being
> > > > > > contemplated
> > > > > > & even assuming direct travel & no wrong
> > turns
> > > > or
> > > > > > serendipity
> > > > > > which of course you cant because you wont
> > > > actually
> > > > > > do that
> > > > > > & even assuming you could just end the trip
> > at
> > > > > > campobello too
> > > > > > which you cant do either
> > > > > > will still add up on the odometer to far
> > more
> > > > than
> > > > > > the 7400 miles
> > > > > > you are seeing on your roadmap
> > > > > >
> > > > > > so in the event of reality
> > > > > > if any
> > > > > > rather than teleportation to the start &
> > from
> > > > the
> > > > > > end
> > > > > > etc etc
> > > > > > you are certainly pushing if not actually
> > into 5
> > > > > > digits of miles
> > > > > > even with this foreshortened itinerary
> > > > > >
> > > > > > & if you dont believe me
> > > > > > well then by all means try it with or
> > without
> > > > the
> > > > > > cocaine
> > > > > > but i dont see how anyone could actually
> > even
> > > > try to
> > > > > > make such a
> > > > > > try under any circumstances
> > > > > > let alone with a whole carload of people
> > > > > >
> > > > > > & i say this having already driven about 99
> > > > percent
> > > > > > of it myself
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com,
> > Michael
> > > > > > Kaufman
> > > > > > <mikekaufman79@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > > No way. Blaine, WA to Campobello Is. is
> > just
> > > > over
> > > > > > > 4000 by Mapquest, taking into account all
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > > stops. Adding a segment of Skagway to
> > Blaine
> > > > adds
> > > > > > > 1500 miles. So that makes 5500 miles. A
> > > > Yukon
> > > > > > > crossing near Beaver Creek could be done
> > in
> > > > 1700
> > > > > > miles
> > > > > > > (distance to Blaine), which would make
> > 5700.
> > > > Even
> > > > > > if
> > > > > > > you were thinking of a round trip segment
> > from
> > > > > > Blaine
> > > > > > > to Yukon to Blaine, you would still only
> > get
> > > > 7400
> > > > > > > miles. Any of these figures are much
> > closer
> > > > to
> > > > > > 6000
> > > > > > > than 11,000. Were your calculations done
> > > > while on
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > aformentioned cocaine? heh heh heh ;)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- m06079 <barbaria_longa@h...> wrote:
> > > > > > > > yes awful high
> > > > > > > > especially if you move gold rush park
> > from
> > > > > > skagway
> > > > > > > > to practically
> > > > > > > > anywhere else
> > > > > > > > since that alone could save you over
> > 2000
> > > > miles
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > driving
> > > > > > > > & make your guess of closer to 6000
> > miles
> > > > than
> > > > > > 10000
> > > > > > > > correct
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > but if you moved gold rush park to the
> > yukon
> > > > > > > > as it appears you may still be intending
> > to
> > > > do
> > > > > > > > then you would be closer to 11000 miles
> > than
> > > > > > 6000
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > "Michael
> > > > > > > > Kaufman"
> > > > > > > > <mikekaufman79@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Hmm 10,000 seems an awful high
> > estimate.
> > > > > > Closer
> > > > > > > > to 6,000 I
> > > > > > > > think.
> > > > > > > > > But regardless it seems Gold Rush is
> > not
> > > > the
> > > > > > park
> > > > > > > > I was
> > > > > > > > looking for
> > > > > > > > > as that borders on BC, not YK.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > > > > "acroorca2002"
> > > > > > > > <orc@o...> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > hahaha
> > > > > > > > > > hey it wouldnt be impractical to
> > just
> > > > > > remember
> > > > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > > > would it
> > > > > > > > > > hahaha
> > > > > > > > > > as if an alaska to new brunswick
> > motor
> > > > tour
> > > > > > > > could actually be
> > > > > > > > > > done in the same 2 weeks anyway
> > > > > > > > > > hahaha
> > > > > > > > > > even without any of the other
> > mentioned
> > > > side
> > > > > > > > trips & stops
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > well maybe if you had enough cocaine
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > but it looks like you are already
> > > > pushing
> > > > > > 10000
> > > > > > > > miles there
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In
> > BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > > Michael
> > > > > > > > Kaufman
> > > > > > > > > > <mikekaufman79@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Hmm some of those I think would
> > have
> > > > to be
> > > > > > > > precluded
> > > > > > > > > > > due to practicality. And the
> > > > Binational
> > > > > > tps
> > > > > > > > would be
> > > > > > > > > > > more a subject of another trip I
> > > > think.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --- acroorca2002 <orc@o...> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > nice lists all
> > > > > > > > > > > > & if we are really going to do
> > the
> > > > full
> > > > > > > > 2week
> > > > > > > > > > > > great north american border
> > > > expedition
> > > > > > > > > > > > without mexico but with a bazuco
> > > > > > > > > > > > then lets at least remember
> > > > > > > > > > > > hans island cadk
> > > > > > > > > > > > isle verte cafr
> > > > > > > > > > > > & the diomedes ruus
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > > > > > the twin virgin idaho british
> > > > columbia
> > > > > > > > tripoints
> > > > > > > > > > > > & others equally causal
> > > > > > > > > > > > sometimes practically coincident
> > > > with
> > > > > > your
> > > > > > > > choices
> > > > > > > > > > > > tho i wont spoil it by telling
> > you
> > > > which
> > > > > > > > ones til we
> > > > > > > > > > > > get close
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In
> > > > BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > > Doug
> > > > > > > > Murray
> > > > > > > > > > > > <doug@d...> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't believe I missed
> > Haskell,
> > > > > > Beebe, &
> > > > > > > > > > > > Canusa... and lunch
> > > > > > > > > > > > with the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hurtibuse's! And dinner at
> > > > Hoagie's
> > > > > > Pizza
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > Newport,
> > > > > > > > > > > > Vermont.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, March 9, 2004, at
> > > > 10:31
> > > > > > PM,
> > > > > > > > Michael
> > > > > > > > > > > > Kaufman
> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice job. I have been
> > > > constructing
> > > > > > > > (made it
> > > > > > > > > > > > several
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > months ago and added here
> > and
> > > > there)
> > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > own list
> > > > > > > > > > > > -
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > very similar to yours.
> > Though
> > > > there
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > a few
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > differences.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here it is:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > CA-US:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gold Rush Int. Park - YK/AK
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pt. Roberts, Peace Arch, 0
> > Ave.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > North Portal, SK - Portal,
> > ND
> > > > Golf
> > > > > > > > Course
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > International Peace Gardens
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > International Peace Park -
> > > > Waterton
> > > > > > > > Glacier,
> > > > > > > > > > > > Alberta
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > International Falls - MN
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pinecreek/Piney Airport -
> > > > Pinecreek
> > > > > > MN,
> > > > > > > > Piney MB
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Detroit/Windsor Tunnel
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Niagara Falls
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Zavikon Bridge & 1000
> > Islands
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > NY/Que bar with pool table
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Haskell, Beebe, Canusa
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Campobello - NB/ME
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Doug Murray <doug@d...>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> We are definitely due for a
> > > > Great
> > > > > > North
> > > > > > > > > > > > American
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Border Expedition
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> (though, Mexico would not
> > be
> > > > > > included
> > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > > > time).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Highlights:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Stewart BC-Hyder AK ( a
> > > > toughie, as
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > is so
> > > > > > > > > > > > far
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> north)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Point Roberts
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Sleeping at the Smugglers
> > Inn
> > > > on
> > > > > > Zero
> > > > > > > > Ave.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Zero Ave!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Peace Arch (BC-WA)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Peace Garden (MB-ND)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> The Pineycreek (MB-MN)
> > Airport
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Angle Inlet
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> International Falls, MN -
> > Fort
> > > > > > Frances,
> > > > > > > > ON
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Windsor, ON - Detroit, MI
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Niagara Falls
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> The intersection of Douglas
> > &
> > > > > > Murray in
> > > > > > > > Fort
> > > > > > > > > > > > Erie,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> ON (though for
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> personal reasons!)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Akwesasne Reserve
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> The Border Bar (Fort
> > Covington,
> > > > NY
> > > > > > -
> > > > > > > > Dundee,
> > > > > > > > > > > > QC)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> The Border Golf Course
> > (ME-NB)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> And Campobello Island
> > (ME-NB)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> 2 weeks for this one!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Doug
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Monday, March 8, 2004,
> > at
> > > > 06:27
> > > > > > AM,
> > > > > > > > Peter
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hering
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Hello all,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> I've just added a picture
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > > > photo
> > > > > > > > section
> > > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> BP:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> taken in Ft. Covington -
> > > > border
> > > > > > > > Québec/NY.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Wouldn't it be nice to
> > have a
> > > > real
> > > > > > > > party
> > > > > > > > > > > > here??
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Playing billiards - one
> > leg in
> > > > > > each
> > > > > > > > country,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> drinking bourbon in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> the US, while smoking a
> > nice
> > > > cigar
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > Canada...!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> well, just say when - I'll
> > be
> > > > > > there!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> all yours
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> MafiapeteDk
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Peter Hering
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> de bedste hilsener
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> best regards
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> mit freundlichen Grüssen
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> <image.tiff>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> <image.tiff>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> To visit your group on
> > the
> > > > web,
> > > > > > go
> > > > > > > > to:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BoundaryPoint/
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> To unsubscribe from
> > this
> > > > group,
> > > > > > > > send an
> > > > > > > > > > > > email
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> to:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >
> > BoundaryPoint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Your use of Yahoo!
> > Groups
> > > > is
> > > > > > > > subject to the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > __________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Search - Find what
> > you're
> > > > > > looking
> > > > > > > > for
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