Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Israel Army Proposes to Create Enclaves
Date: Feb 14, 2004 @ 22:27
Author: Lowell G. McManus ("Lowell G. McManus" <mcmanus71496@...>)
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Kaufman" <mikekaufman79@...>
To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 1:41 AM
Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Israel Army Proposes to Create Enclaves
> I guess it's how you define it. I gather your
> interpretation is that of taking infinite
> horizontal-plane crossections of the space we have in
> question. Then tracing the border and projecting
> upwards. The horizontal surfaces as differences are
> easy to see if you think about a simplified bridge
> with perfectly straight lines.
> But what about a person standing on a bridge. Again,
> north of the median line of the Rio Grande, but south
> of the marker. Take a horizantal plane crossing me at
> some point through my legs. This plane would have a
> border as projected directly upwards from the river
> median line. It would also contain two circular-esque
> enclaves of Mexico in US, the two enclaves being the
> cross-section of each leg.
> But you can only project this upwards until there is a
> change whereby the cross-section will not match the
> one below it. I.E.: Project this scenario upwards by
> vertical surfaces until the border changes on another
> particluar plane. If we were only thinking of the
> river median line, you could project this plane
> upwards forever without having to have any horizontal
> differentiation. But we have the additional
> complication of the person. If a person was made of
> certain regular geometric shapes (like stacks of
> squares and rectangles of different sizes on each
> other), you may be able to project upwards 4 inches
> before hitting a difference - creating a horizontal
> surface linking two different projections. The next
> one up may go 2 inches, etc.
> But people are not a regular shape at all. Each
> cross-section you take will be different because the
> body (and clothing etc.) is not geometircally perfect.
> So you can't project it up any distance vertically,
> because the next plane up will be different. So you
> have an infinite number of contiguous crossectional
> planes which are all different (from the feet to the
> head of the person).
> All of the contiguous horizontal planes come together
> to form 3-D space. The infinite unchanging river
> median line projections come together to form a
> vertical surface (you can change your z-coordinate
> while maintaining your x and y coords). But the
> surface created by the infinte number of lines of the
> human cross-sections is not purely vertical. If you
> want to change your z-coordinate, you have to change
> either your x or your y as well.
> So I think if we call the vertical surface a border,
> we have to call the nonvertical surface a border too,
> since they are both made up of the same infinite
> number of border tracings on contiguous planes. I
> would call them both border surfaces.
>
>
> --- m06079 <barbaria_longa@...> wrote:
> > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, Michael
> > Kaufman
> > <mikekaufman79@y...> wrote:
> > > Thanks for clarifying this, Lowell. Yes, this
> > does
> > > make more sense from a practical aspect. But it
> > also
> > > adds a level of variability to the exact 3-D shape
> > of
> > > the border (i.e.: people and cars move, the 3-D
> > border
> > > surface moves with them) that I don't recall
> > seeing
> > > elswhere.
> >
> > wait mike
> >
> > youve still almost got it
> >
> > but neither the border nor the border surface really
> > moves with
> > the people & the cars
> >
> > in fact
> > border surface
> > as such
> > is a practically meaningless concept
> >
> > for borders really have no surface
> >
> > not a horizontal surface anyway
> >
> >
> > they have a vertical dimension
> > it is true
> >
> > & in rare cases such as this they are vertically
> > differentiated
> > besides
> >
> > & so i suppose you could say that the vertical
> > projections of
> > border lines do form surfaces of a sort
> >
> > but i think that that is as far as you could take
> > this term
> >
> >
> > moreover
> > split level borders must of course adjoin horizontal
> > surfaces that
> > link their differing vertical positions &
> > projections
> >
> > but borders per se can have no surface other than a
> > vertical one
> > so far as i can see
> >
> >
> > & such a variability as you imagine is the case
> > neither on mxus
> > nor anywhere else
> > i believe
> >
> > the variability that does exist on mxus consists
> > only in the vertical
> > differentiation between a historic thalweg position
> > recorded &
> > frozen on a bridge railing
> > & the ongoing location of the living thalweg itself
> >
> >
> > the activity on the bridge doesnt affect the
> > boundary
> >
> >
> > & it is true that you havent seen what you describe
> > elsewhere
> > since it actually obtains nowhere
> > so far as i am aware
> >
> >
> > >
> > > --- "Lowell G. McManus" <mcmanus71496@m...> wrote:
> > > > Michael,
> > > >
> > > > You've almost got it.
> > > >
> > > > Not only the physical substance of the MXUS
> > bridges,
> > > > but also persons and
> > > > traffic upon them are governed by the
> > established
> > > > boundary monuments on the
> > > > bridges. Anything or anyone not on the bridges
> > (in
> > > > the air above or on the
> > > > ground or water below) is governed by the
> > current
> > > > location of the middle of the
> > > > main channel of the river. This is by the 1970
> > > > treaty.
> > > >
> > > > If it were otherwise, the wording on the bridge
> > > > monuments and signs would be
> > > > meaningless to their readers if those readers
> > had to
> > > > look off the bridge
> > > > (perhaps in darkness) and estimate the location
> > of
> > > > the middle of the river.
> > > >
> > > > Lowell G. McManus
> > > > Leesville, Louisiana, USA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Michael Kaufman" <mikekaufman79@y...>
> > > > To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 6:17 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Israel Army
> > Proposes to
> > > > Create Enclaves
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BoundaryPoint/message/10911
> > > > > Due to the changing course of the river, the
> > > > > bordermarker on the bridge is now directly
> > over
> > > > land
> > > > > on the northern/US bank of the Rio Grande.
> > The
> > > > bridge
> > > > > itself and its supports are Mexican all the
> > way up
> > > > > until the marker. But for everything else,
> > the
> > > > border
> > > > > is the middle of the river. So for instance,
> > you
> > > > > could be standing on the bridge say 2 feet
> > south
> > > > of
> > > > > the bordermarker. Directly beneath you is a
> > > > sovereign
> > > > > Mexican bridge. But beneath and above that is
> > > > > soverign US airspace and land on the north
> > bank of
> > > > the
> > > > > Rio grande. You are in the US even though you
> > are
> > > > > south of the marker. Only the physical bridge
> > is
> > > > in
> > > > > Mexico. But you can not be in Mexico this way
> > > > since
> > > > > you would have to occupy the same physical
> > space
> > > > as
> > > > > the bridge at the same time, which is, of
> > course,
> > > > > impossible. If you were on the bridge and
> > wanted
> > > > to
> > > > > visit Mexico, you would have to walk further
> > south
> > > > > until you pass the middle of the river. This
> > is
> > > > how I
> > > > > understand the situation to be.
> > > > > -Mike
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
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> >
>
>
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