interesting
so could the lingering slight uncertainty about the exact position of
the jungholz boundary cross perhaps hinge on whether a particular
marker is understood to be direct or indirect
or
taking another tack
could the uncertainty simply be the result of not knowing exactly how
far offline or offpoint a particular indirect marker actually is
--- In
BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Stavro Blofeld <
blofeld_es@y...> wrote:
> > i am still puzzled why such indirect demarcation
> > would be used on
> > completely dry land
> >
> > & also what makes these particular markers into
> > witness markers
> > rather than normal definitive boundary markers
>
> In case of the first two markers, with the text
> "Weiser fuer" on them, it is quite clear that they are
> witness (or indirect) markers.
>
> Firstly because the border official description
> states that there is one on either side of the stream,
> and that the border runs in the stream between them.
> With the help of the line created by the two witness
> markers, and the thalweg principle (if applicable in
> this case, which I am not sure of), it should be
> possible to determine exactly one point through which
> the border must pass.
>
> Secondly, beacuse field studies show that there are
> actually two stones in situ, and moreover, they are
> stamped with the text "Weiser fuer", which I believe
> means witness marker.
>
> In case of the "I Ö" marker the case is quite
> different. Note that I am not sure that the picture
> really shows "I Ö", but if not so the actual marker in
> question should look something like it.
>
> The official border description states that "I Ö" is
> situated not on the border but away from it. Note the
> cute little drawing to the right in the border
> document. The document does not say how far away from
> the border the "I Ö"-marker is, in fact, it does not
> even define a point on the border from where to
> measure such a distance.
>
> Ergo, point "I", which is defined in the border
> description as being part of the border, cannot be
> fixed in space neither practically nor theoretically.
>
> It simply states that the border follows the
> ridge("dem Grat folgend"), and gives a hint that this
> ridge with the border on it is some short distance in
> a general southwesterly direction from "I Ö".
>
> > did the terrain preclude the use of direct markers
>
> Yes, I believe so. I think that on the other end of
> the small passage in the mountain ("der Felstunnel"),
> i. e. the end that we cannot see on the picture, there
> is a terrifyingly steep drop. This remains to be
> investigated, so here is yet another call for all good
> men to come to the aid of.., well, you know.
>
>
> > also what kind of directions are given & where are
> > they given to get
> > you from the witness markers to the actual boundary
> > points they purport
> > to witness
>
> See above. As we have seen, in one case no such
> directions are given.
>
>
> However, there are some more peculiar circumstances to
> this specific border.
>
> The border on the very mountaintop around the
> quadripoint is sparsely marked, to say the least.
> Whereas in the lower areas it is quite densely marked,
> in some places with no more than a few meters between
> intermediary markers.
>
> On the top the border simply follows the cliff, so it
> meanders along the ridge and is anything but simple to
> determine in the field. Yet, at least a few border
> markers are fairly new, with hightech coating and the
> usual line-dot-line on top which is supposed to show
> the border exactly.
>
> Together with these we have the century-old or more
> markers 110, "I Ö" and possibly one or two more.
>
> One cannot but wonder, whether the old markers are
> kept and incorporated in the now official border
> description out of piety, cultural interest,
> conservatism or any other honorable motivation, more
> than absolute geodetic need.
>
> Finally, if there really is a steep drop behind "I Ö"
> I strongly suggest that the next party to visit the
> spot bring equipment to affix a warning sign nearby.
> If there is no room for a multilingual sign, then use
> whatever word of warning that you think will be
> understood by all borderfreaks. May I humbly suggest
> "Pozor"? Then, for once, it would serve its purpose.
>
>
>
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