--- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "pete2784west" <
petter.brabec@c...> wrote:

> As I understand it: The border marker 423 is originally Russian-
> chinese only, but probably for the convenience of setting up a
> borderline which ends in the middle of the river Tumen, this border
> marker is taken as a starting point (cf. art.1). From this point the
> line is perpendicular to the Chinese-korean borderline formed by the
> middle of the main channel of the river Tumen. The waters of the
> river behind the borderline going from border marker 423 to the
> middle of the river are called "joint boundary water area of China
> and Korea DPR". So the waters are joint, and it makes it easier for
> the Korean border guards to shoot at people fleeing the country as
> long as they are in the river, but once they get on the shore they
> are in China only. The Chinese-korean borderline goes all the way
> through the middle of the river channel up to the point where
> Russia, China and KoreaDPR meet. Further down the stream of Tumen
> river continues Russian-korean borderline being placed again in the
> middle of the course of the Tumen river. We are still talking about
> waters, no land. The tripoints are placed on both sides of the
> river,

i figure you must mean the tripoint markers here petter

not the tripoints themselves

but i agree we are really talking about 2 distinct tripoints here
cncnkpru & cnkpkpru

however
these actual tripoints are simply at the 2 end points of the cnkp joint
or condo zone cnkpru triline

think of it as an ordinary tripoint halved or stretched into a triline
between 2 semitripoints

& one of those semitripoints is marked by monument 1

& the other is the unmarked point where the sight line between monument
1 & monument 2 crosses the midchannel line

so as i understand it
marker 1 also serves with marker 2 to witness the entire triline
including the unmarked end point & cosemitripoint at midchannel

we have encountered something very much like this before with the delu
condo trilines

no biggie

technically
as was observed then
all such trilines are dipunctitrilines

or more technically still ditripunctitrilines
meaning simply trilines with tripoints at each terminal

& i also agree it isnt clear whether the joint zone extends all the way
to the korean bank
nor does it apparently matter to the russians
who have no such condo with korea
nor does it apparently matter for tripointing &or trilining purposes

more insertions below

but they are standing on the sovereign territories, either

> Russia, China or Korea. Art. 4 states that every country is having
> responsibility for one border marker each. The picture of
> bordermarker 3 I've seen here, is Russian responsibility.

technically 1 marker is on cncnkpru & 1 is in kp & 1 is in ru

>
> So, reaching a tripoint here means getting wet and go fishing.

not really
as explained 1 tripoint is marked & the other is wet

From

> border marker no.1 on a straight line perpendicular to the middle of
> the stream of the river Tumen, 306,9 m in to the water. Anyone
> should feel pretty safe then :-). Then, still following the line,
> one should get to the shores of the Korea DPR and hit the border
> marker no.2. When still in the water and keeping the line aiming at
> border marker no. 2, to the right you are still in the joint Chinese-
> korean joint boundary water area. To the left you are still in the
> water, but whether Russians and Koreans agreed to something similiar
> as the chines and koreans, I don't know.
>
> I'm not clear about why the third border marker has been set up on
> the Russian territory and whether this border marker is placed on
> the same borderline drawn between border marker no. 1 (on Chinese-
> russian border) and no. 2 (in Korea).

clearly it is not on the line between markers 1 & 2 but downstream

more below

This is why the final protocol

> from 2002 is still needed.
>
> Petter
>
> --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, Michael Kaufman
> <mikekaufman79@y...> wrote:
> > Witness marker 1 (aka CN-RU 423): We know this is
> > exactly on the CN-RU boundary and is exactly on the
> > point where CN-RU hits the CNKP condo (CN-CNKP-RU).
> > So why is CNKP-KP-RU the official "state boundary
> > meeting point of the three countries" (article 1,
> > section 2 of the treaty in message 12459)?

this end of the triline is the official meeting point of the 3
countries just as much as the other end of the triline is the official
meeting point
& indeed just as much as the entire triline as a whole is the official
meeting point

isnt that lovely

a line is a point

& a point has become a line between 2 points

Doesn't

> > CN-CNKP-RU have just as much the same tripoint status
> > since it is one of the 2 terminal points of the
> > CNKP-RU triline?

yes

> > Also - I am unclear on the condo in this regard: Is
> > the CNKP condo the entire river (1 in diagram) or just
> > half of the river on the Chinese side (2 in diagram).
> > I mean we know the triline only goes out to the middle
> > of the main channel of the river, but couldn't a
> > CNKP-KP line continue after that?

we dont know

nor does it actually matter for the purposes of our cnkpru chase

> > -Mike
> >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Peter Smaardijk" <smaardijk@y...>
> > > > To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 11:43 PM
> > > > Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: cnkpru - more
> > > pictures
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Some more pics (they seem to connect):
> > > > >
> > > > > http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/nagune/p352.jpg
> > > > > http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/nagune/p081.jpg
> > >
> > > this latter pic appears to be by far the best pic we
> > > have
> > >
> > > & if the fence observed by jesper does indeed mark
> > > cnru
> > > then cnru marker 1 aka 423 should be on the bank at
> > > the end of that
> > > fence
> > > slightly obscured by the foliage
> > > unless that dark dot there near the sand flat is the
> > > marker
> > > yikes
> > >
> > > but in any case the triline should run from this
> > > cncnkpru point 423
> > > perpendicular to the bank & halfway across the
> > > channel
> > > to the unmarked cnkpkpru tripoint at the other end
> > > of the triline
> > >
> > > does everybody see & get that
> > > because i do believe we can visualize all this now
> > > for the first time
> > >
> > > bravissimos all
> > > in any case
> > > > > Peter S.