ok adam i can confirm from bus&ss that both the 1848 & 1853 mxus
treaties referred simply to
the middle
of both the colorado & gila rivers
& as for what the writers of those treaties figured the middles of
such wildly irregular rivers to be
i doubt even they had any clear idea
perhaps the middle of the deepest channel
hence thalweg
but perhaps not
of course your specific & probably insoluble puzzle
if you do try to find this exact ghost point
rather than simply visiting where these rivers meet today
to make as good a guess of it as any
will be in finding exactly where whatever the writers meant by the
junction of these fickle river middles actually was situated between
1848 & 1853
hahahaha
i have also learned from the same source that azca is defined as
the middle of the main channel
which i also interpret to mean thalweg
& i know the rio grande part of mxus has been defined as
the middle of the deepest channel
which i again also interpret as thalweg
but i dont know for a fact if the same regime applies today to the
colorado also
tho i expect it probably does
this may be spelled out in lowells more recent 1970 mxus treaty
for which i too will look forward to confirmation
but as of now it sure looks like azca is thalweg & azbc is thalweg
& so it is likely that no stitch or esoteric search will be necessary
as mxn & azbcca do very much appear to be one & the same point
--- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "acroorca2002" <orc@o...> wrote:
> --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Lowell G. McManus"
> <mcmanus71496@m...> wrote:
> > Adam,
> >
> > I'll try to answer your questions that were addressed to me below
> by mid-week.
>
> hahahahahaha
> & much more below
>
> > Some will require a little research, and I'll be away tomorrow.
> >
> > Lowell G. McManus
> > Leesville, Louisiana, USA
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "adamnvillani" <avillani@u...>
> > To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 10:36 PM
> > Subject: [BoundaryPoint] mxn trip?
> >
> >
> > > A while ago somebody (it might have been acroorca2002) posted
> about a
> > > trip to visit the northernmost point in mexico, which I guess
> under
> > > our notation would be something like mxn or mxus2azcabc.
>
> all correct
> & by alphabetizing your diglyphs into say azbcca in the present
case
> your searches will be far more successful & your contributions far
> likelier to be found by others
> with &or without the mxus2 prefix
>
> Anyway, I
> > > was planning a visit out the that area either this coming
Friday
> or
> > > Saturday, and was wondering if anyone had any hints on the best
> ways
> > > to approach the point.
>
> bravos i cheer
> & not only hints but a request
> to get great pix of all the fantastic details surrounding this point
> which all previous visitors have neglected to do
>
> for hints of course please begin again from message 5181
>
> & if you really are trying to make the point itself
> then extra bravos for picking up where my try stalled atop both
towers
> at class e as in elusive
> so near & yet so far
> for you will find both banks clogged with tall impenetrable veggies
> as this map also indicates
> http://topozone.com/map.asp?lat=32.72583&lon=-114.725
> & no clear view from either tower
>
> & the cable car
> which could be used to get a clear view
> probably still bolted fast to the american tower
> & too risky to borrow anyway because then how would you get down
> after you have had your class c ogle at the tripoint from high
above
> the middle of the river
>
> but my guess is the river level will be quite low now
> so you ought to be able to walk or float down from a point on the
> right bank above the north end of the veggie line
> as also shown on the topo
> but the tripoint vicinity is probably best accessed in any case by
> parking in the parking area about a mile north of the andrade
border
> post & walking across the alamo canal bridge before descending the
> last mile along the river
>
> the trick will be in knowing where the bcca survey line terminates
> once you have found the thalweg delimiting azbc
> because then you wont be able to see over the veggies enclosing you
> hahahahaha
>
> no mxus markers certainly
> & not the wall end
> & probably not even the tower tops unless you move up or down the
> river a bit
>
> & of course there is still the question of how azca terminates too
> because there could conceivably be a need for one of our famous
> tripointing stitches here also
> if for example
> azca does follow midchannel & azbc the thalweg
> with the thalweg falling east of midchannel here
>
> right
> the mxn point & mxus turnpoint could actually lie a few feet east
of
> azbcca
>
>
> so you will have your work cut out for you
> running back & forth from the river bed to one or the other of the
> towers
> to best guess the tripoint position
> & i think best guessing is all you will be doing unless you bring a
> machete to hack a monument sight line
>
> i believe it is mostly just dry reeds & worth this try
>
>
> I guess Lowell would have the goods on where
> > > exactly in the Colorado River the tripoint is, since he's our
> > > resident expert on the usmx treaty.
>
> yes it will be worth waiting for lowell on this if you can
> but in the meantime
> as mentioned
> i believe the thalweg is what you are looking for here
>
> with luck it will be readable as a wiggly line down a dry riverbed
>
> > >
> > > I suppose another historical tripoint I could pick up would be
the
> > > historical tripoint between California, New Mexico Territory,
and
> > > Mexico before the Gadsden Purchase was made. That would be
where
> the
> > > Gila River flows into the Colorado, on the north side of Yuma,
> right?
> > > Lowell, do you have any idea whether that tripoint would be in
the
> > > river midpoint, the thalweg, one of the banks, or what?
>
> right
> i believe they probably didnt specify that detail in the original
> treaties
> & it became a ghost tripoint & therefore a moot question by 1853
> but again i think the thalweg junction is your best shot here
> as it is traditional in the absence of anything else anyway
>
> > >
> > > I also plan to pick up the 33N115W confluence point, but from
the
> > > description of that on www.confluence.org, it sounds pretty
easy
> to
> > > find with a GPS receiver. If I'm feeling lucky I might try for
> > > 32N115W, but that sounds like 5 miles of driving on questionable
> > > roads in Mexico, which I'd feel a lot better about if I had (a)
4-
> > > wheel drive, (b) somebody fluent in Spanish with me, and/or (c)
a
> > > lack of memories of bad experiences getting cars stuck in the
mud
> in
> > > the middle of the desert in the US, and that was bad enough.
Come
> to
> > > think of it, one time I was in a caravan of Suburbans on a
Geology
> > > field trip in Mexico on a road even the locals didn't take any
> more,
> > > and one of the vehicles got stuck in a rut. Thank God we had a
> winch.
> > > Car trouble is no fun.
> > >
> > > Adam
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> & for mxn or if you just wish to live happily ever after
> with us here or in general
> please remember to focus upon & talk about what is fun rather than
> what is not fun
> not only because you & we can feel the vibrational level & feeling
> tone dive in the moment of no fun & perhaps even take a message or
2
> to recover
> but also
> & especially
> because thought creates reality
>
> & if you want more fun
> as we probably all do
> rather than less
> you are entirely responsible for creating it
> just as you are entirely responsible for creating no fun if you do
> because your thought itself is that powerful
>
> so those are my hints & requests & best wishes for your mxn try at
> least