thanx kevin
sounds like a book many of us will enjoy
after some searching
i believe i have found the location you mentioned on south street
& will look for a commemorative plaque or something
on the specified north wall
next time i blow thru there
are there any more data in the book about this most precious
initial point
--- In
BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Flynn, Kevin"
<flynnk@r...> wrote:
>
>
> > ----------
> > From: acroorca2002[SMTP:orc@o...]
> > Reply To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 5:02 PM
> > To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Hancok, MD
> >
> > --- In BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Flynn, Kevin"
> > <flynnk@r...> wrote:
> > > A very interesting what-if regarding this narrow neck of MD:
> > >
> > > Before Mason and Dixon set out on their survey, Lord
> > Baltimore's
> > > representatives believed the PA-MD line of latitude would
be
> > farther north.
> > > Once it was established as a line 15 mi (IIRC) south of
Spruce
> > Street in
> > > Philadelphia
> >
> > you probably do recall correctly
> > as it was to be 15 miles south of the southernmost point of
> > philadelphia at that time
> > but how did you arrive at spruce street for it
> > & what part of spruce street if you can say
> >
> >
> My error, it wasn't Spruce bur rather South Street, then known
as Cedar
> Street (and I used to live in Philly, no lessl shoulda known
better).
> Anyway, prior to Mason and Dixon's arrival in Philly, the joint
commission
> of PA and MD reps had stipulated with input from city officials
that the
> "southernmost point in the city" would be the north wall of a
house on the
> south side of Cedar (now South) Street near the corner of
Second Street. The
> constant latitude would be an E-W line 15 miles south of this
point. Of
> course, because the Delaware River flows SWerly here, Mason
and Dixon had to
> survey a course due west from the southernmost point, far
enough to be west
> of the presumed place where the New Castle Arc would drop
below the West
> Line (the point that should've become PADEMD but did not
because of the
> problem of The Wedge) and then drop 15 miles due south to
mark the latitude
> of the West Line. (This became the "Post Mark'd West," which
was actually
> within the 12-mile New Castle Arc; Mason and Dixon had to
proceed west from
> there tp begin the actual PAMD West Line at the Arc limit.
>
>
> > > (minus the land enclosed by the New Castle arc, of
course),
> > > there was a real concern that the MD-VA line (the right bank
of
> > the Potomac)
> > > might actually swing so far north that it would extend north
of
> > the MD-PA
> > > boundary. Now *that* would have been interesting.
> > >
> > > So what is the speculation here as to how that situation
might
> > have been
> > > equitably resolved among VA-MD-PA?
> >
> > it might have been equitably resolved the same way kymotn
was
> > resolved
> > which was for the surveyors to just follow the agreed specs
> > whatever happened
> > thus producing in that case the kentucky bend exclave
> > & in our speculation a similarly detached western md exclave
> > as you anticipate below
> >
> > > VA was supposed to have the lands south
> > > of the Potomac; but if the river flowed north of 44 deg
latitude,
> >
> > actually if the river flowed anywhere north of the latitude
agreed in
> > 1760 as you describe it above
> > or in other words mason & dixons 39d43m17s6
> > aka mdn of today
> > for example 39d43m15s521 nad27 at mdne
> > then it would have done as you say here below
> >
> > > it would
> > > have punctured PA and cut off eastern MD from western
MD,
> > creating a large
> > > enclave. How else could this have been resolved?
> >
> > i suppose a particularly generous & whimsical pa mightve
given
> > to md the part of itself that wouldve fallen south of the
potomac
> > & thus produce a sausage chain of 3 mary lands
> > connected only by 2 mdmdpava tristate quadripoints
> >
> However, I wonder whether Virginia would have interceded and
actually
> claimed the land south of the Potomac that under these
circumstances would
> have been north of the Mason Dixon Line and therefore
arguably in PA? Just
> think, if the commissioners had said 17 miles instead of 15
miles south of
> the southernmost point in Philadelphia, we would have had
this very problem.
> One pre-Mason Dixon survey in the 1730s, I believe, actually
measured out a
> 17 1/2-mile southern march from Philly.
> >
> > > As noted here, Mason and Dixon breathed a sigh of relief
when
> > the river's
> > > course again turned to the south before reaching their line.
> >
> > interesting
> > can you give the source of this sigh
> >
> >
> Yes. Page 133, "Drawing the Line: How Mason and Dixon
Surveyed the
> Most Famous Border in America," by Edwin Danson, (c)2001
John WIley & Sons.
> "Mason was concerned about the westerly direction they may
have to take the
> next season and was worried they may be forced to cross the
Potomac River.
> If this were so, then they would have two problems. Measuring
across the
> wide river at an oblique angle would be difficult; but more
importantly, the
> Potomac formed the border between Maryland and Virginia. If it
transpired
> that the true latitude they were following crossed south of the
Potomac,
> Penn's legal boundary of constant latitude would be
impossible and Maryland
> would become divided. The political and legal ramifications
would be
> dire..."
>
> "The next morning, they all set off for North Mountain to spy out
> the land... From the summit, they saw the northern loop of the
great river,
> about ten miles distant. Much to Mason's relief, they estimated
that the
> West Line would pass some two miles north of the Potomac,
near Hancock,
> Maryland....
>
> (Then page 146:) "Near Hancock, Maryland, Mason and
Shelby's
> estimated course for the West Line, seen from North Mountain
the previous
> October, was substantiated when the survey team passed a
scant 1 1/2 miles
> north of the Potomac River."