Hadrian's wall, Antoinine Wall...
And the longest fence in the world, the austrlaian vermin fences (anti
rabbit and anti-dongo) which follow sttate boundaries in some stretches.
Presumably there was a wall at Constance on the swiss-German border?
BW
>From: "Peter Smaardijk" <smaardijk@...>
>Reply-To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
>To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: US-Mexico and citizenship - walls & borders
>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 18:53:32 -0000
>
>This reminds me of something I brought up here some time ago. I was
>arguing that some boundary markers are actually walls, like the
>Berlin wall. I think it was Michael who put me straight by saying
>that it isn't the wall here that was the border, because the wall
>would be on the territory of the power that had built it. In the
>Berlin case this is right, of course. It also seems to be right for
>the US-Mexican boundary fence, at least most of the time. It looks
>like this case is one of "the border was first here, and then the
>wall/fence was erected".
>
>But looking at a map of China, I can see that at least part of the
>Chinese Wall forms the boundary of some Chinese provinces. Offa's
>Dyke seems to form, for very small stretches, to be sure, boundaries,
>too. Maybe the boundary is not really formed by the wall, but the
>wall is merely an indicator as to where the boundary is. But it could
>equally well be that the boundary is the centre line of the
>wall/dike/whatever.
>
>Also, the case of Vatican City springs to mind. It looks like the
>outside face (outside, that is, from the papal perspective) is the
>international border here. This is the case when the wall is that of
>a building. In the case of the old fortifications, the wall might
>well have an outside face that is not vertical but tilted slightly
>inward (as these old fortification walls often are). I would think
>the boundary is at the spot the outside face reaches the horizontal,
>i.e. the street or pavement.
>
>Does anyone else have anything on "walled" and similar boundaries?
>
>Peter S.
>
>(by the way: great pictures, Dallen! (as usual, I can say by now))
>
>--- In BoundaryPoint@y..., Dallen Timothy <dtimothy@a...> wrote:
> > These pictures remind me of a recent discussion I had with a US
>Immigration
> > supervisor about citizenship. In theory, given the fact that the
>fence is
> > three feet inside the United States at most places (and about five
>or six
> > feet in some places) and US citizenship is automatically granted to
>anyone
> > born on US soil, a pregnant Mexican woman could have her baby lying
>down
> > between the actual border and the fence and the baby would be a US
>citizen!
> > This was the question/situation I posed to the immigration boss.
>His
> > response was as follows: Yes, in theory this might be so; however,
>a few
> > things would have to be established in order for this to be the
>case.
> > First, there would have to be physical proof, and basically the
>only proof
> > they would accept would be video footage together with eyewitnesses.
> > Second, the law actually has two parts. If a person is born on US
>soil AND
> > within the jurisdiction of the United States he/she can have US
>citizenship.
> > According to the US Immigration and Naturalization Service, the
>jurisdiction
> > of US control ends at the fence, not at the actual borderline. I
>argued
> > that this may be so for everyday functions, but US sovereign control
> > technically goes up to the actual border. He agreed, but said that
>this
> > would be a case not to be determined by an immigration officer, but
>rather
> > in a federal court.
> >
> > So, I left his office with the understanding that a Mexican woman
>who gives
> > birth to a baby within the narrow strip of US land north of the
>borderline
> > would have a pretty good court case for claiming that her baby is a
>US
> > citizen. I don't believe it would take much to argue that, while
>the fence
> > is an administrative barrier, sovereign JURISDICTION still extends
>to the
> > borderline. The immigration officer asked me not to spread this
>word
> > extensively in Mexico!
> >
> > Can any of you US immigration law experts add any clarification to
>this
> > situation?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Dallen
> >
> > Dr. Dallen J. Timothy
> > PO Box 874905
> > Arizona State University
> > Tempe, AZ 85287-4905
> > USA
> >
> > Tel: (480) 965-7291
> > Fax: (480) 965-5664
> > Email: dtimothy@a...
> > Web: http://www.asu.edu/copp/recreation
>
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