Subject: Re: Roetgen/Monschau enclaves
Date: Jun 07, 2001 @ 06:16
Author: Peter Smaardijk ("Peter Smaardijk" <smaardijk@...>)
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So my misunderstanding here is narrowed down to me not knowing what a
traffic island is. Now I do, for which a profound thank you, and of
course I now also understand why this spot was so special.

Peter S.

--- In BoundaryPoint@y..., "Brendan Whyte" <brwhyte@h...> wrote:
> A traffic island is a small area in the middle of an intersection
that is
> out of bounds to traffic. Like the circle of land the Arc de
Triomphe is on
> in the Champs Elysees: a huge intersection, but the traffic is
forced to go
> around the island.
> Here, with the junction of three roads, there was at one point a
traffic
> island, the area mapked with a P (foir parking area) on the current
map. In
> the past, at the eastern end was another shor section of road
allowing
> traffic fomr the east road to connect with the south road.
> Hence the two boundary stones there, one on either side of the old
> connection, 779 and 780.
> Now this is soley for entering the parking area, as one can also do
on the
> other side, immediately above the M of Monschau on the southern
road.
>
> Why is this area special?
> Not so much now, but from 1949 (or possibly earlier, I have not
throroughly
> investigated the treaties), this island was a Belgian counter
enclave.
> The island belonged to Belgium. Hence the boundary stones. The
roads
> surrounding it belonged to Germany, forming a Y shape, each stalk
of the Y
> ending at the Vennbahn railroad, at Roetgen in the west,
Lammersdorf in the
> east or Monschau in the south. The Vennbahn and the rest of the
land within
> it was Belgian, part of the Eupen-Melmedy cession from Germany in
1919.
> IN the 1950s treaty, Belgium relinquished control of all the land
north of
> the Roetgen-Lammersdorf road, EXCEPT the Vennbahn, and including
the traffic
> island. In return Germany ceded the southern road, from the island
to
> Monschau.
> This was the most major change to the Roetgen-Monschau enclaves
since their
> creation.
>
> BW
>
>
> >From: "Peter Smaardijk" <smaardijk@y...>
> >Reply-To: BoundaryPoint@y...
> >To: BoundaryPoint@y...
> >Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Roetgen/Monschau enclaves
> >Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 12:05:43 -0000
> >
> >Some things are not entirely clear to me, though:
> >1. What is a traffic island (purely a language thing)? Is it the
> >parking lot due east of Fringshaus?
> >2. Why is this spot so special then? Was it any different from the
> >area south-east of it at any time?
> >
> >Btw: The road is the Bundesstrasse 258, meaning it is maintained by
> >Federal services (L means Landstrasse, K means Kreisstrasse,
meaning
> >they are under Fed. Land and District services, respectively). This
> >road has been named N (=Nationalstrasse) 258 in Belgium, without
> >changing the number. So B258 in de, and N258 in be. As you say, the
> >road is maintained by Germany. A situation not unlike Dutch road
N274
> >in Germany. I don't know whether this road also has a German
> >designation.
> >
> >Peter S.
> >
> >--- In BoundaryPoint@y..., "Brendan Whyte" <brwhyte@h...> wrote:
> > > The road junction from Roetgen (west) Monschau (south) and
> > > Lammersdorf(east).
> > > The blank southern area is Belgium proper, the north with the
> >details, the
> > > larger of the two roegten enclaves.
> > > The roads west and eats are German to their edges, then Belgium
> >kicks in.
> > > The traffic island is on top of a hill, so the railway, Belgian,
> >winds
> > > around the hill to the far north, via Lammersdorf then south to
> >Monschau.
> > >
> > > according to the US Geographers "International Boundary Study
No7,
> >June 30
> > > 1961 Belgium-Germany Boundary":
> > > "Before 1949 the three roads had been in Germany while the
> >territory on all
> > > sides was under Belgian administration. In 1949 the roads were
> >provisionally
> > > transferred to Belgium. The 1958 solution saw the cession of
> >Belgian
> > > territory north of the roads and the return of the two east west
> >segments to
> > > Germany. In turn Germany ceded the north south stretch of
highway
> >to
> > > Belgium."
> > > ...
> > > "Since Article 7 of the Bonnb Convention on Relations provides
that
> >the
> > > final determination of the boundaries of Germany must await a
peace
> > > settlement of the whole of Germany, these frontier arrangements
are
> > > necessarily provisional."
> > >
> > > Treaties covering the tripoint to enclaves area are:
> > >
> > > Treaty of Vienna 9 June 1815. In effect 1816-1919 and 1940-45.
> >Basic line of
> > > boundary.
> > >
> > > Boundary Treaty, Prussia and Netherlands, 26 June 1816. Detailed
> > > delimitation of Congress of Vienna treaty boundary.
> > >
> > > Treaty of London, 19 April 1839. Belgian independence.
> > >
> > > Treaty of Versailles, 28 June 1919.Articles 31-35 detached
Moresnet
> >and
> > > eupen-Malmedy fomr Germany.
> > >
> > > Report of the Belgian-German Boundary Demarcation Commission,
> >Aachen 6 Nov
> > > 1922. Very detailed technical report was published in Moniteur
> >Belge, the
> > > Belgian govt gazette, 7 March 1925 as an annex to the law
> >incorporating the
> > > lands into the Belgian provincial structure.
> > >
> > > Treaty between Be and De, Aachen 10 May 1935. Two small parcels
of
> >land,
> > > 1.7sq km ceded by Belgium allowing extension of Aachen freight
> >yards.
> > >
> > > Report of the Western German Frontier Demarcation Commission -
> >Southern
> > > Group- Belgian-German Frontier, Arlon (Belgium)9 Sept 1949
> > > 7 parcels of German land provisionally placed under Belgian
> >administration.
> > > 20sq km, 500 inhabitants.
> > >
> > > Treaty between the FRG and the Kingdom of Belgium concerning
> >rectification
> > > of the German-Belgian boundary and other questions, Brussels, 24
> >Sept 1956.
> > > While the 1949 changes had reduced/eliminated some problems of
> >border admin,
> > > customs control, communications and stream polluting, they had
> >created
> > > others. This treaty sought a compromise.
> > >
> > > BW
> > >
> > >
>
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