I think we would need to have some sory of poll or vote on the issues of
terminology, since I seem to disagree with Brendan on a lot of this and I
feel that my opinion is equal to his, not greater but not less.
Maybe a first step would be a complete enumeration of the KINDS of
international 'claves and fragments based on ontological and mereo-
topological grounds. Then we could 'debate' how to group them and what to
call them.
David
On Sun, 29 Apr 2001, michael donner wrote:
> brendan
> your recent mention of the sealess coastal enclave on cyprus
> & your reference to offshore dependencies in the followup message
> raise several old & new questions involving claves & territorial seas
> which i hope you &or others will also be able to answer
> if not absolutely now then at least somehow sometime
> possibly in the following order of importance or interest
>
> first
> how many world class claves are there really
> & how might they be most sensibly grouped into the subcategories of
> enclaves & exclaves & fragments
> &or any other subcategories
> & can they all be listed by their individual natural names yet
> or by any other generally recognizable names
>
> in other words are we in reach of a first global clave census & roster
> as we are for the countries of the world themselves
> & as we have already tried for the tricountry points etc
>
>
> second
> would the above questions be answered any differently if adjacent
> territorial seas were considered integral parts of those coastal clave
> territories that have them
> just as much as they are integral to the so called metropolitan areas or
> nuclear territories of coastal & archipelagic countries generally
>
>
> third
> do you really mean by the term fragments to invoke the idea of fracturing &
> breaking
> & to imply that these entities have actually been broken or have broken
> or are broken or are being broken in some sense
>
> or is all that just my own subjective gloss upon this word
>
> for wouldnt some term that is less suggestive of disintegration & disruption
> while still conveying the idea of partition & separation
> such as outer lands or outlying areas or particles for example
> be more faithful to clave reality & more generally helpful & ameliorative
>
> or for referring equally to both claves & their metro areas
> some term like compartments or co parts or installments
> or even tho seemingly contrarian contiguities continuities continua etc
>
> but also
> since i am still unsure what new distinctions you mean to make by
> introducing the term fragments
> & would like to understand this better
> dont the 3 traditional terms enclave & exclave & metropolitan area alone
> suffice to cover all eventualities
> if used correctly
>
> m
>
>
> >
> >That would seem right.
> >Not counting Nagorno or Palestinian west bank, Tibet, or SMOM:
> >
> >triple-landlocked: 0 countries, 1 enclave, one counter-counter-enclave.
> >= 2 fragments
> >
> >double-landlocked
> >2 doubly landlocked countries, Liechtenstein and Uzkebistan. And other
> >doubly landlocked enclaves include Campione, Busingen, the 7 dutch
> >counter-enclaves at Baarle, the russian enclave in Belarus, the 5 enclaves
> >of armenia and Azerbaijan (Nagorno doesn't count as it is not recognised as
> >Armenian or independent), the counter enclave at Madha in the UAE,the 6
> >other Ferghana enclaves and the 21 Pakistani and 3 Indian counter enclaves.
> >= 2 countries, 14 enclaves & 32 counter-enclaves
> >= 2 countries and 46 fragments.
> >
> >single-landlocked
> >39 countries, 23 enclaves at Baarle, Llivia, 5 at Monschau, 3 at Cyprus [1
> >is already on the sea, although it has no territorial sea of its own]
> >Nakihichevan, Madha.
> >= 39 countries, 33 enclaves , 1 other fragment (Nakhichevan).
> >= 39 countries, 34 fragments
> >
> >Unlandlocked:
> >approx 200 countries.
> >
> >
> >>From: granthutchison@...
> >>Reply-To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> >>To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> >>Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Triple land-locking
> >>Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 21:11:43 -0000
> >>
> >>Here's a random thought that has just come to me. I think there are
> >>probably only two triple land-locked territories in the world - areas
> >>from which you can't reach the sea without crossing three national
> >>boundaries. One is the (pretty obvious) third-order Indian enclave in
> >>Bangladesh, and the other is the Tajik enclave in Uzbekistan.
> >>Does anyone else find that at all interesting?
> >>
> >>Grant
> >>
> >
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