Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Largest enclave
Date: Mar 13, 2001 @ 15:08
Author: David Mark (David Mark <dmark@...>)
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> No. No claves, ex or en.Jungholz meets one part of the definition ("100% surrounded by another
> The mainland bit i would call a fragment of the island, as the island has
> the larger population and more importantly the capital. The mainland is
> larger in area, but still a fragment, as it is peripheral.
> ***********
> David pulled me up on a fine point:
> an enclave or exclave must be surrounded entirely by one other unit.
> An enclave is inside you and an exclave is a PIECE of you inside someome
> else.
> Eq. Guinea is and has neither of these.
>
> By definition, agreed on by Robinson, Catudal, Farran, Raton, etc
> An exclave is a piece of one country/political unit separated form that unit
> and totally surrounded by ONE other unit.
> therefore it must be:
> a) a piece of a larger entity
> b) landlocked and 100% surrounded by another unit.
> Jungholz is not an exclave as it has a point connection with mainland
> Austria. But being a singularity is very interesting nonetheless.
> I dislike the distinction of en and ex claves, and tend to call both
> enclaves.
>
> Why?
> Because traditionally, Llivia is an exclave of Spain but an enclave of
> France.
> BUT that makes it also a French exclave and a Spanish enclave form the
> spanish and French points of view respectively.
> So if it is a Spanish enclave AND a Spanish exclave, a French enclave AND a
> French exclave, what's the point of the distinction?
> It gets easily lost in English syntax.
>
> Thus I prefer not to draw the distinction in that way, as I think it serves
> little purpose.
>
> B
>
>
>
> >From: michael donner <m@...>
> >Reply-To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> >To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Largest enclave
> >Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 02:07:46 -0500
> >
> >this is good stuff brendan
> >& the distinctions are useful
> >
> >are you saying then that you think equatorial guinea does have an exclave
> >as the question was about claves rather than fragments
> >
> >m
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >I think the martimie terr is an EEZ, and not territorial sea.
> > >Which means a foreign naval presence can move through it.
> > >But the point of rragments is that they disrupt normal administration and
> > >travel and trade etc because there is a rupture of foreign territory or
> >sea
> > >or lake or unbridged river.
> > >The greater this is in width, the harder the administration.
> > >
> > >Even in territorial sea, someone can come in and suck up the water, and
> >you
> > >can't do anything about it. But if someone comes on to your land and
> >starts
> > >digging holes you can.
> > >
> > >Holes of high seas within an EEZ create administrative problems as ANYONE
> > >must be given access to those holes, which allows them to fish illegally
> >in
> > >your waters on the way through, and it is harder to manage stocks of fish
> > >etc because of that free-fishing hole.
> > >
> > >Once islands like Denmark's are connected by bridges, the administration
> > >problems begin to disappear.
> > >B
> > >
> > >
> > >>From: michael donner <m@...>
> > >>Reply-To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > >>To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > >>Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Largest enclave
> > >>Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 00:11:27 -0500
> > >>
> > >>i have a map by prescott that shows the 2 apparent fragments of
> >equatorial
> > >>guinea to be connected by maritime territory & thus not to really be
> > >>fragments at all
> > >>at least no more than sjaelland & continental denmark are fragments
> > >>nor than any offshore island within the territorial waters of denmark or
> > >>any other country is a fragment
> > >>
> > >>m
> > >>
> > >>by contrast i would say the danish island of bornholm is a true fragment
> > >>because in this special case foreign maritime territory does cut it off
> > >>completely from the rest of danish territory
> > >>
> > >>or have i missed your point
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> >No. Enclaves have to be totally surrounded by one other entity.
> >Eq.G.'s
> > >> >mainland is coastal and borders two other countries on land.
> > >> >However, it is an interesting FRAGMENT, as although larger in area,
> >and
> > >> >'mainland', it is smaller in population than Rio Muni island, AND it
> >does
> > >> >not have the capital.
> > >> >Other examples are:
> > >> >Malasia, where E.Malaysia is larger, but has smaller pop and not the
> > >>capital
> > >> >Samoa, where the smaller island has the larger popn and the capital
> > >> >Pakistan 1947-1971, where the western part was larger and had the
> > >>capital,
> > >> >but the East had more population.
> > >> >Denmark, where the capital is on an island, not the larger mainland.
> > >> >
> > >> >Brendan
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >>From: "Jesper & Nicolette Nielsen" <jesniel@...>
> > >> >>Reply-To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> > >> >>To: <BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com>
> > >> >>Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Largest enclave
> > >> >>Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 16:48:13 +0100
> > >> >>
> > >> >>Which is the largest enclave in relations to the main area?
> > >> >>
> > >> >>How about Equatorial Guninea?
> > >> >>
> > >> >><<http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ek.html>
> > >>http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ek.html>
> > >> >><http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ek.html>
> > >>http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ek.html
> > >> >>
> > >> >>If the capital is on an island so far from the main land is then the
> > >>main
> > >> >>land an enclave?
> > >> >>
> > >> >>Jesper
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >>
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