--- In
BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com, "Flynn, Kevin"
<flynnk@r...> wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: acroorca2002 [mailto:orc@o...]
> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 10:06 AM
> To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: American State Boundaries
>
> > It is
> > really silly to say that a river that courses, e.g., 10 miles must
> be
> > regarded as infinite in shorelineand equal to the Nile.
>
> yes i agree
> if infinity doesnt equal infinity
> but doesnt it
> i forget
>
> The Nile isn't infinitely long.
right & i never implied it was
you were talking about shorelines tho
& shoreline boundaries in particular
or so i thought
& so i was responding to that
i dont think anyone was talking about the nile itself
in fact i dont even think the nile proper follows a boundary
tho some of its headwaters evidently do
but you do keep changing the terms
& implicitly or explicitly substituting the river for the shoreline or
the boundary that was actually the topic of our mutual interest
which is ok
but please at least know that you are doing it
& implying even sillier words have come from me than even i
intended
> but also why not be really silly
> & why couldnt the shorelines of unequal rivers be equal
>
> Because they are different lengths.
do you mean because the rivers are of different lengths
but that is not a reason why their shorelines couldnt be equal
anyway i agree we have done enough of this stuff
& please see below too
> > Regarding Ellis Island, while you are correct about the origin
of
> the legal
> > matter (NJ's claim regarding the filled portion of the island on
> formerly
> > submerged ground) NJ didn't dispute NY jurisdiction on the
> original 1834
> > defined island. The 1834 compact is the "lesser" instrument I
> refer to,
> > which appears to me to be something less than actually
> conferring NY
> > statehood to the island, but is merely a NJ concession of
NY's
> right to
> > authority over the original island.
>
> the 1834 is the original & definitive agreement
> & possibly the only completely ratified agreement to date
>
> i have the telling parts if you want excerpts
>
> Yes, I would like to read them. Can you post them or give a
link? Also, is
> there any written record of the practices prior to 1834 that led to
the
> Compact having to be written? IIRC, the compact was to
memorialize and
> standardize a set of past practices and customs regarding the
islands in NY
> Bay.
you are probably right
abstracts from bus&ss 1976 pp76f
njny was plainly stated in the grant by the duke of york to berkeley
& carteret in 1664
the geodetic sector from njne to njnypa was run & confirmed
between 1719 & 1773
in 1833 commissioners were appointed by ny & nj for the
settlement of the territorial limits & jurisdiction of the 2 states
agreement reached & ratified & confirmed 1834
provided as follows
article first
the boundary line between the 2 states of ny & nj
from a point in the middle of hudson river opposite the point on
the west shore thereof in the 41st degree of north latitude
as heretofore ascertained & marked
aka njne
to the main sea
shall be the middle
of the said river
of the bay of new york
of the waters between etc etc
except as hereinafter otherwise particularly mentioned
article second
the state of ny shall retain its present jurisdiction of & over
bedloes & ellis islands
& shall also retain exclusive jurisdiction of & over the other
islands lying in the waters abovementioned & now under the
jurisdiction of that state
article third
the state of ny shall have & enjoy exclusive jurisdiction of & over
all the waters of the bay of new york
& of & over all the waters of hudson river lying west of manhattan
island & south of the mouth of spuyten duyvel
& of & over the lands covered by the said waters
to the low water mark on the westerly or nj side thereof
subject to the following rights of property & of jurisdiction of the
state of nj
that is to say
1
the state of nj shall have the exclusive right of property in & to the
land under the water lying west of the middle of the bay of new
york
& west of the middle of that part of the hudson river which lies
between manhattan island & nj
2
the state of nj shall have the exclusive jurisdiction of & over the
wharves docks improvements etc etc
bedloes island & ellis island
tho on the nj side of the boundary
are under the jurisdiction of the state of ny
& are a part of greater new york city
end of extracts