Michael:
> whaa
> i must have misunderstood & dont have the maps
> do you mean in prescott
> the median frnl projected from the east end of dry frnl runs away
from the
> question entirely
Of course - it's heading towards St Kitts & Nevis.
> while median frgb strikes only the sw median frnl & strangely far
inshore or
> really just off the west end of dry frnl
Yes. While searching for some sort of map I could post to inform this
discussion, I found that DeLorme's EarthA software depicts the median
situation (albeit schematically) as I would predict it from looking at
the map - very different from Prescott. So I've clipped the relevant map
from EarthA, and laid on a little dotted purple line to show what
Prescott shows.
In EarthA, the western wet frnl heads SW, *diverging* from the western
gbfr - so there is no tripoint. The reason for this odd course isn't
obvious in EarthA, but becomes clear if you look at a map of Saint
Martin / Sint Maarten, like the one at
http://www.netherlandsantilles.com/maps/stmarteen_map.jpg
the western end of the dry boundary turns SW and crosses a SW-facing
coast, propelling the equidistance line in that direction.
You'll see from my purple-dotted depiction of Prescott's rendering that
his "median line" (so marked on his map) runs *parallel* to that stretch
of coast. It only makes sense if the dry border at some time ran out to
the very tip of the westernmost peninsula instead of turning SW as it is
depicted on the maps I have access to.
Of course anything is possible by treaty, but I can't make the median
lines work in my head to give any sort of frgbnl tripoint.
> & i dont yet see how eez claims could trump sovereign area claims
> i mean except perhaps as bargaining fodder during negotiations
> but can so far only manage to see it the other way round
Well, we both imagine that somewhere out to the northeast the EEZs of gb
and fr kiss for the first time, and delineate a median line, which
swoops down towards the strait between Anguilla and Saint Martin. What
you're suggesting (I think) is that when this median is 12nm from both
coasts, the French territorial sea suddenly haemorrhages through the
median line and bulges NW until it impinges on the GB 3nm territorial
sea when the two coasts are only 15nm apart, where ... well, something
happens. By analogy with a median line, maybe they form a "20th centile
line". I can see where you're coming from with that - the stronger juju
and better mojo of the French territorial sea overwhelms the feeble GB
EEZ. But in my head there's a hierarchy of containment, of territorial
sea within EEZ, that is violated when the French territorial sea bulges
across the median line. I don't say it's *right*, but it's a point of
view. Once again, I'd love to hear from someone who knows what happens,
assuming this has ever been addressed in treaty or international court
of law.
>> So at "my" level,the
>> quadripoint at the tip of the exclave changes from High
>> Seas/Italy/Croatia/Slovenia to Croatia/Italy/Croatia/Slovenia. A
>> topological anomaly I'm having trouble coming to terms with!
> right
> these are the minimax counterparts or poles of this single point
> so not really an anomaly but just the predictable 2 layers
My topological problem didn't come from the two layers, but from the
single point. It comes from my perfs and frags interest: Is an entity
connected to its parent by a single point an exclave or not?
> youve got the everyonese maxiprobability exactly right as high seas
> tho as peter points out the everyonese miniprobability is now looking
> like a quintipoint
Hmm. I don't buy it (though I will come to the shop and look at it
through the window from time to time). You territorial seas folk don't
declare a quadripoint every time land meets sea and country meets
country, although the rules of sovereignty change in both directions.
Why should we (editorial "we", admittedly) EEZ folk buy a territorial
sea/EEZ boundary? The edge of the EEZ is where influence / no influence
cuts off at the surface of the earth, and the rest is just a matter of
degree.
> yet what equidistance dues do or would st pierre & miq have all the
way over in
> cabot strait which is between canada & canada
There's a point not strictly in the strait but at its SE end which is
equidistant from Cape Breton Island, Newfoundland and St P&M. Sea to the
ESE of that point is necessarily closer to St P&M and therefore French
by equidistance, but not by mapped boundaries.
>> Marvellous! You've abolished one of my perfs, since St P&M clearly now
>> have a corridor to the high seas.
> how can you be sure enough yet to completely abolish it
Occam's Patent Rarely Errant Razor.
1) The French website disapprovingly states that Canada was prepared to
grant St P&M "no more than" an enclave; *but* they were finally granted
a "corridor". The contrast is clear: it's not an enclave and it leads
somewhere - where else is feasible or likely but the high seas?
2) It's 200nm long, it heads due south at constant width, and it starts
farther south than the adjacent Newfoundland coast. Where can it end but
at the limit of the Canadian EEZ?
I'm a Scot, and I'm sure enough to bet money. *That's* how sure I am.