very nice you guys
also i think the particular delusion about holland may be worldwide
& not restricted to english
considering how they say dutch &or the netherlands in some other at least
west european languages
m
>From: "Brendan Whyte" <brwhyte@...>
>Reply-To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
>To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [BoundaryPoint] Re: holland n all oh
>Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:52:24 +1000
>
>It all comes down to historic practice. With old countries there are
>usually
>various foreign versions of names for the capital, country, main rivers and
>other cities. In Europe this may be becausde of a common Latin base,
>earlier
>translation or transliteration attempts and errors, inability to say
>certain
>sounds, etc.
>Taiwan uses wade-giles, so its capital is called Taipei. China uses Pinyin
>romanisation, so Taipei becomes Taibei. The actual sound is the same,
>though
>Taiwanese dialect may be different to Beijing putonghua.
>
>Hong Kong comes fomr the Cantonese, while the Mandarin pronunciation of
>thesame characters is Xiang Gang.
>Russians can't say the H sound, so say 'Gong Gong'.
>
>I have seen various transliteraions of the Belrus city of Gomel. Some maps
>show Homel.
>
>There are two chinese versions for NZ:
>one that translates the sounds: Niu Xi Lan
>and one that translates the first word literally: Xin Xi Lan (Xin=new)
>
>The French write Paris, so English say Paris, not Par-ee.
>The English write London, so the French say Londre and write Londres!
>
>Den Haag = The Hague.
>
>South Africa/ Suid Afrika
>
>BW
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Grant Hutchison" <granthutchison@...>
> >Reply-To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> >To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: holland n all oh
> >Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 22:58:31 -0000
> >
> >Michael:
> > > it seems to me
> > > if a word has a meaning
> > > especially a primary meaning
> > > whatever the language & no matter how mistaken the derivation or
> >meaning is
> > > then it is not wrong but right to use that word in that universally
> > > recognized sense in that language
> >
> >Is there not also some consideration of courtesy (as I think you have
> >alluded to already in this thread) to call a country by the name "it"
> >chooses for "itself"?
> >The official name I find in various encyclopaedias is "Koninkrijk der
> >Nederlanden" which to my Deutsch, at least (not Dutch), looks like a
> >plural: "Netherlands".
> >An odd exception to this direct-as-possible-translation rule is Cote
> >d'Ivoire, the government of which have officially asked to be
> >translated into English as, well ... "Cote d'Ivoire".
> >
> >Reminds me of a Richard Feynman story.
> >Feynman once met Murray Gell-Mann (who is a linguist as well as a
> >physicist) in the corridor outside his office.
> >"Murray," said Feynman, "haven't seen you for a while. Have you been
> >away?"
> >"Yes," said Gell-Mann. "I've been to ..." and he here emitted a word
> >that sounded to Feynman like "MOHNG-RRRHay-al".
> >"Where?" asked Feynman.
> >"MOHNG-RRRHay-al," repeated Gell-Mann, slowly and clearly.
> >After a bit more to-ing and fro-ing, they established that Gell-Mann
> >had been to Montreal, but was using the Quebecois pronunciation.
> >"Tell me, Murray," said Feynman, putting his arm around Gell-Mann's
> >shoulders. "As a linguist, don't you feel that the primary purpose of
> >language is *communication*?"
> >
> >I don't know what the moral of the story is; I just like to tell it.
> >
> >Grant
> >
>
>
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