yes
now we are talking some leading edge punctology here
so to repeat & elaborate
the usgs was completely embarrassed by & indeed clueless about settling this
question
tho they did evidently disgorge the full contents of their useless file to
me
however
your idea brian of going to the 3 county land offices involved is the
necessary breakthru
i think
so go go go & i will cheer you on
possibly also
the 3 state govt libraries involved might be searched electronically now
better than i was able to do years ago
for any interstate boundary compacts on file there
also worth observing
there really isnt any good reason i am aware of to suppose that anyone in
1891 knew or might have known the position of the river in 1858
so i think there is a good likelihood that the 1891 ndsd survey initial
point 9 chains east of the witness monument was then considered & is still
the operative mnndsd tripoint
of course this still leaves unexplained why the usgs topo places the mnndsd
tripoint about 80 feet east of the witness monument
& it would be foolhardy to just write this probability off before we are
absolutely sure it is a mistake
even tho we know of at least 2 other such usgs tripoint mistakes
especially as this is the exact position shown in my photo formerly hanging
at the corner corner
but i am inclined to believe both that 80foot photo position & your 135foot
photo position will ultimately go down before the original 9chain or 594foot
position
& this whether it falls in the river today or not
& it may still be too soon for certainty
but as i said
i am pretty sure the necessary remeasurements will be easiest to make in a
hard freeze
m
>From: bjbutler@...
>Reply-To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
>To: BoundaryPoint@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: MNNDSD Carefully
>Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 02:56:17 -0000
>
>I have that book and consulted it regarding this issue. It states
>what we already know - that the witness monument is "9 chains west of
>the Bois de Sioux River bed." I have assumed this is equivalent to
>the tri-point, but maybe not (see below). The enabling act admitting
>Minnesota as a state in 1858 says the western boundary consists, in
>part, of the Bois de Sioux River.
>
>The boundary shown on the topo map might follow the 1858 course of
>the Bois de Sioux, and the 1891 witness monument might be 9 chains
>west of the 1891 (and current) course of the Bois de Sioux.
>
>Do you think it is possible that the "initial point" of the 1891
>survey was the 1891 Bois de Sioux, even though its 1891 course was
>several hundred feet east of its 1858 course? This seems unlikely
>but it provides a solution encompassing all known facts and maps.
>
>BJB
>
>
> > As you probably know, the definitive answers (I think) regarding US
>state
> > boundaries can be found in Franklin K. Van Zandt's Boundaries of the
> > United States and the several States : with miscellaneous geographic
> > information concerning areas, altitudes, and geographic centers. It
>is out
> > of print but USGS has a service that will make a copy for a price,
>or you
> > might find it in a local library.
> >
> > David
> >
> > On Sun, 26 Aug 2001 bjbutler@b... wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks for the reminder. I was aware of this limitation, but
>even
> > > taking it into consideration the tri-point still would fall
>within
> > > the Bois de Sioux. That would make perfect sense if not for the
> > > state boundary as shown on the map, and the concensus that the
>river
> > > has been straightened and/or re-routed. I am very curious to
>know
> > > what influenced the USGS to depict the state boundary as shown.
>I
> > > have sent an inquiry to them but have not received a reply. I
>have
> > > been trying to think of other authorities that may have
>information
> > > (Army Corps of Engineers or county engineering departments,
>maybe.)
> > > As I mentioned in an earlier e-mail, I am doubly interested in
> > > resolving this because I visited what is shown as the easternmost
> > > point in ND, slightly north and across the river from the MNNDSD
> > > witness post.
> > >
> > > BJB
> > > > Remember that due to the possible errors in drafting and
>printing,
> > > USGS
> > > > maps only claim that things are within 1/50 inch of their true
> > > positions
> > > > on the map, which for a 1:24,000 scale map is 40 feet.
> > > >
> > > > David
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 bjbutler@b... wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Today I made some high-resolution scans of the Boisberg, MN
>topo
> > > map
> > > > > and scale so I could accurately measure the relationships
>between
> > > the
> > > > > witness monument and the river, etc. The summary is:
> > > > >
> > > > > The tri-point, as shown on the map, is 80 feet E of the
>monument.
> > > > >
> > > > > The tri-point, as indicated on the monument (66 chains = 594
>feet
> > > E
> > > > > of the monument)is in the Bois de Sioux River.
> > > > >
> > > > > The following link has been updated with this data and a copy
>of
> > > the
> > > > > high-res scan I used is included:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.bjbsoftware.com/corners/pointdetail.php3?point=58
> > > > >
> > > > > BJB
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
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